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you

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this is fade to black with Jimmy church

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on the game changer radio network and kg

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ra the global radio alliance the station

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there talks than that k gr a radio hi

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this is Jimmy churchie fade to black

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today everybody the fader dots and

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planet Earth is vaping and I'm very

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proud to announce our very own a Jews

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when we were approached by City of

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Angels vapor about fade to black ejuice

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I wanted to make sure that it was the

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very best and that the flavors were

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something that I could create myself and

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we did just that introducing fade to

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black fader loops this will take you

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right back to Saturday morning cartoons

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in your favorite bowl of Fruity Lupe's

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cereal just click on the banner or go to

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dub dub dub c OA vapor calm enter the

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promo code Jimmy for the fader not

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special that's dub dub dub c o a vapor

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calm Gobekli Tepe hi this is ray sobs

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here repping the planet and you're

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listening to my good friend Jimmy church

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fade to black on the game changer

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network and the kg are a digital

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broadcast station imagine no longer

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being tied down to your computer but

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having the freedom to take live talk

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radio with you anywhere you go talk

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stream live introduces our first-ever

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iphone application the talk shows you

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available in the iTunes App Store this

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is Toby Kebbell you're listening to

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jimmy church radio.com don't know me

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Jimmy I'm only little yeah majoring

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grenier this is our Eagle where the

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honey brothers hey i'm adrian grenier

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and I'm Ari Gold where the honey

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brothers and you're listening to jimmy

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church revolution attention all fate or

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not studio dome has a special deal on

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shipping on the sd1 it's voice-activated

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comes with the USB antenna cables and a

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carry bag never listen to your phone

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tablet or laptop speakers ever again

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it's the only way to listen to fade to

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black that's Jimmy church radio.com

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studio dome banner promo code Jimmy

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Gobekli Tepe this is micah Hanks to the

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grey lien report and you're listening to

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jimmy church on fade to black across the

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globe on the game changer radio network

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and the one and only k gr a radio the

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alright welcome back this is paid to

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black misspoke radio for the masses on

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the game changer network in kg ra the

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planets i'm your host jimmy church and

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tonight we have very special guests live

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from the UK jamie bartlett and his book

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the dark net don't forget next Monday

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we'll have Corey good and David Wilcock

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right here it is a true blockbuster

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night that you've requested and fade to

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black has the exclusive now over the

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last couple of months you have heard my

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personal commentary about the dark net

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the Deep Web the dark net whatever

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moniker you want to give it we always

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wonder as we walk through life is there

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another dimension to life is there

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something else going on out there and

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there truly is right now we know what

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the surface web is we know what Google

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is we know what Yelp is and that's

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that's a universe that we understand we

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go there every day but there's another

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one a true another dimension that exists

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right underneath our feet I am

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fascinated with it when I first heard

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about the dark web years ago 10 years

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ago I thought no way really there's this

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this dark place where things happen that

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we don't know about that you have to be

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invited into that you can't get to you

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can't go and explore you only heard

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about it but it turns out it's real I've

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been there I've talked about it I've

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talked about it a lot and with with the

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emergence and the downfall of the Silk

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Road mass media and the public finally

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heard for the first time about this this

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place called the dark web I have been

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talking about it I went out and I found

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Jamie Bartlett who is the best we got

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him into the show tonight it was a lot

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of work but we've got him now live from

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the UK Jamie Bartlett is a journalist

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and a tech blogger for the Telegraph

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and director of the center of analysis

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of social media for demos in conjunction

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with the University of Sussex in 2013 he

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covered the rise of Pepe Grillo's five

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star movement in Italy for demos

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chronicling the new political forces

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emergence and the use of social media in

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2014 he released a book entitled the

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dark net discussing the dark net and

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dark web in broad terms describing a

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range of underground and emergent

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subcultures including social media

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racist camgirls self-harm communities

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darknet drug markets crypto anarchist

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and transhumanist he regularly writes

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about online extremism and free speech

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as well as social media trends in

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Wikipedia Twitter and Facebook i would

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like to proudly welcome Jamie Bartlett

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to fade to black Jamie good morning in

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the UK I realize it's 4am in the morning

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over there but I just want to say thank

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you for coming on so early in the

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morning but our audience will thoroughly

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appreciate and enjoy you being here how

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are you this morning and don't say that

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don't say bad very glad city yeah I'm

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Jamie I have been and thank you for

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coming on with us I have been doing a

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personal commentary over the last couple

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of months on this show about the dark

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net and it is something that I've been

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interested in since the first time I

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even heard the term darknet Deep Web

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dark web deep net whatever you want to

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call it it's got an air of mystery to it

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and I have always been completely

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intrigued that something like this is

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running around underneath our feet and

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we just don't know much about it what

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got you into the deep web and the dark

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net and wanting to write about it I

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think like a lot of people I sort of

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stumbled across it thanks to probably an

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article in somewhere like why I adore

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gorkha about a drugs market and I just

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thought to myself no that's they can't

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be it they can't be a functioning

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drugs market on a hidden part of the

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internet that's ridiculous throw I had

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to find out I mean my job here in London

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is doing research on how the Internet's

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changing society so I thought well I got

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to go and find it I've got to go and see

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what this is really like and to me is a

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sort of professional researcher a

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professional journalist i also just

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wanted to understand it objectively

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who's there what are they doing on it

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why are they there how does the thing

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work and so I sort of spent a bit of

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time digging around and realized that

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yes indeed there was this hidden part of

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the internet the the time very few

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people know anything about not only that

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the story gets a bit more interesting

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and complicated the more you look into

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it and it actually ended up becoming the

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book anyway a bit of a broader study

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something I'm very interested in and I

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think it's important for lots of reasons

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which is what do we do what do we humans

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do on the net when we think we're not

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being watched what are the edges what

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are the extremities to which we will go

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I have looked at it a few ways for my

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audience in that we've always looked at

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the paranormal or wondered about dreams

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or what happens after you die or is an

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alternate reality possible where we're

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always intrigued with these questions

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but if you've ever wanted to explore

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true alternate reality one that is real

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go check out the dark web because that

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is a world that you would never have

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imagined existing but it truly does well

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yeah I mean I does it the interesting

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thing here or I think is is is that yes

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there is an encrypted hidden part of the

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internet and maybe we can get into how

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that works maybe you've talked a lot

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already about how that works so your

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listeners are familiar and but here's

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the thing on the normal internet on the

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just parts of the internet that are

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easily accessible with a normal web

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browser I have found things that are

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equally as bizarre

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peculiar terrifying shocking there's

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anything on the darknet and that's a I

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suppose in some ways it's quite a

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worrying thing isn't it but it think

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about the darknet is that yes it's

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sounds very distant it sounds especially

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when you use the language deep you know

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the Deep Web it sounds like there are

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layers and layers and layers that you

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have to travel to get to this thing the

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truth is cyberspace is completely flat

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you know the moment you have a browser

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that gets you access into this other

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encrypted part of the internet it's just

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like being on any other parts of the

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Internet it feels the same in many ways

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it looks the same of course there are

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different technologies behind it but it

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yeah I think that it might actually

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become part of the internet that

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everybody uses on a daily basis in years

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to come a word that way okay that would

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take a specific browser that could be

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integrated and go cross-platform and as

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a matter of fact that is being looked at

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now and we can get into that but what

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for for my audience that may not know

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exactly what we're talking about the

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surface web and I would like your your

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detail on this you know the surface web

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is Yelp and Google and cnn.com and the

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things that we are used to using and

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accessing every single day what is your

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definition of the Deep Web darknets dark

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web right so there are a couple of

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slightly different things here yes the

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surface the surface net if you like

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that's the thing that we all use we use

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it with a normal browser it is indexed

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by commercial search engines like Google

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who index all the different pages which

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allows us to very easily navigate it

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that's the net that we all know love and

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use on a daily basis now there's a

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separate bit of the internet called the

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Deep Web and this is actually often

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misunderstood all this refers to is the

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part

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so the internet that are not indexed by

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the search engines like Google and that

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is enormous that's probably 500 times

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bigger than the normal internet and that

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includes everything from web pages that

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aren't linked to other web pages because

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that's how Google finds them it includes

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our government databases that are on the

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internet but that a password-protected

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let's say for example you want to go to

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your but your online bank you'll have a

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front page which will be on the surface

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net anyone can get to it but to get past

272
00:13:30,090 --> 00:13:26,950
that front page you might need to enter

273
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:30,100
a password that pass where you mean that

274
00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:32,410
part of the site is not indexed by

275
00:13:37,740 --> 00:13:34,990
Google because it's little robots can't

276
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:37,750
get there without the password so there

277
00:13:42,330 --> 00:13:39,730
is this huge amount of stuff on the

278
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,340
internet that is not readily available

279
00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:44,800
to anyone with a browser and is not

280
00:13:50,490 --> 00:13:47,320
indexed by Google most of it's very

281
00:13:54,570 --> 00:13:50,500
boring very dull and that's called the

282
00:14:00,120 --> 00:13:54,580
Deep Web now a tiny section of that is

283
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:00,130
the dark net and that is an encrypted

284
00:14:06,750 --> 00:14:03,490
network of sites we don't know how many

285
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:06,760
it's somewhere between five and fifty

286
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:10,930
thousand which use a very clever

287
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:12,820
encryption system to make them

288
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:17,110
extraordinarily difficult to censor they

289
00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:20,290
are accessed with a special web browser

290
00:14:25,410 --> 00:14:23,830
called the tor browser and it means that

291
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:25,420
you can get on to these sites without

292
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:28,330
giving away your location your IP

293
00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:30,610
address which means you have a high

294
00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:33,280
degree of privacy and security when you

295
00:14:38,670 --> 00:14:36,280
go there and it could come the sort of

296
00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:38,680
place where people with something to

297
00:14:45,060 --> 00:14:42,700
hide naturally my grade 2 and so they're

298
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:45,070
quite different things they're quite

299
00:14:47,940 --> 00:14:45,850
different things and they're often

300
00:14:50,970 --> 00:14:47,950
confused and sometimes you hear it said

301
00:14:53,850 --> 00:14:50,980
that the darknet which is full of guns

302
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:53,860
and drugs and illegal pornography is 500

303
00:14:58,500 --> 00:14:55,570
times bigger than the normal internet

304
00:15:01,320 --> 00:14:58,510
and that is not true that's the Deep Web

305
00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:01,330
and most of it is just boring sites that

306
00:15:04,890 --> 00:15:02,200
are password

307
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:04,900
the darkness is a much smaller and much

308
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:07,090
more interesting subsection of that

309
00:15:16,250 --> 00:15:12,490
there is a there's a an undercurrent out

310
00:15:20,750 --> 00:15:16,260
there right now set with statements like

311
00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:20,760
the Deep Web the dark net is our last

312
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:24,340
bastion of freedom and leave it alone

313
00:15:30,210 --> 00:15:28,000
the more that you guys talk about it the

314
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:30,220
more likely we're going to get shut down

315
00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:32,710
and they'll find a way to take away this

316
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:35,320
last piece of freedom that we have what

317
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:37,090
would you say to somebody that makes

318
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:39,910
that kind of statement yeah it's not an

319
00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:43,450
unusual statement and the there's an

320
00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:46,300
interesting culture as I said I suppose

321
00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:50,470
it's become a much more mainstream view

322
00:15:55,890 --> 00:15:53,380
actually and that the internet used to

323
00:15:57,780 --> 00:15:55,900
be a place of freedom a place of privacy

324
00:15:59,760 --> 00:15:57,790
a place where you could explore your

325
00:16:03,090 --> 00:15:59,770
ideas where you could go without being

326
00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:03,100
followed by pop-up adverts where you

327
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:04,990
where not every single thing you did was

328
00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:09,850
recorded collected digit monetized and

329
00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:12,400
then thrown back at you again and for a

330
00:16:18,030 --> 00:16:15,700
lot of people this this dark net is in a

331
00:16:22,070 --> 00:16:18,040
way a return to the origins of the

332
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:22,080
internet this free and not onymous

333
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:26,110
private space and so they are very

334
00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:28,450
protective of it a very protective of

335
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:31,900
the I suppose the philosophy the idea of

336
00:16:37,940 --> 00:16:34,720
this network as being something pure and

337
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:37,950
true and they're worried about everybody

338
00:16:42,630 --> 00:16:40,090
well I think they're worried about it

339
00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:42,640
having a bad name because it's been

340
00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:46,150
associated with with drugs markets and

341
00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:48,310
with illegal pornography and the truth

342
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:49,720
is of course that there's a lot of very

343
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:51,970
good stuff happening on there as well

344
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:53,530
there's a lot of whistleblowing sites

345
00:16:59,580 --> 00:16:55,980
there's a lot of political activism

346
00:17:02,100 --> 00:16:59,590
there's a lot of you know exploration of

347
00:17:04,170 --> 00:17:02,110
ideas there's a lot of chat rooms and

348
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:04,180
forms where people can speak with some

349
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:05,650
privacy all of that stuff's really

350
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:07,329
important but we don't hear as much

351
00:17:13,679 --> 00:17:10,720
about that I guess we in the media are

352
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:13,689
often drawn to the bad stuff and this to

353
00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:15,610
the good stuff but the truth is

354
00:17:20,250 --> 00:17:17,020
this is where I would disagree with

355
00:17:24,329 --> 00:17:20,260
these people if this network this

356
00:17:27,689 --> 00:17:24,339
network and the powerful societal

357
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:27,699
benefits it can bring will only really

358
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:31,120
be realized if all of us or millions of

359
00:17:35,820 --> 00:17:33,490
us go on there if it's just the preserve

360
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:35,830
of a small number of hackers and

361
00:17:41,730 --> 00:17:39,010
libertarians it will never be it will

362
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,740
never yield that kind of social benefit

363
00:17:45,930 --> 00:17:43,840
that I think it could so to me I think

364
00:17:47,549 --> 00:17:45,940
actually it's quite important that

365
00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:47,559
people do know about it and if they want

366
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:49,720
to join it get on it and make it a

367
00:17:53,870 --> 00:17:51,730
little bit more mainstream and usable

368
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:53,880
for the rest of us what have you found

369
00:18:02,330 --> 00:17:57,130
when it comes to all of the taboo

370
00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:02,340
subjects you know kidnapped sex slaves

371
00:18:11,159 --> 00:18:06,900
auctioned his sights of course weapons

372
00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:11,169
malware stolen identities and bank

373
00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:14,049
accounts all of this is available but

374
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:16,840
yet this type of criminal activity is

375
00:18:23,850 --> 00:18:19,720
like honor amongst thieves they want to

376
00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:23,860
have an image a reputation of being the

377
00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:28,030
best human bondage sex slave distributor

378
00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:34,150
in the world Wow no no you're right

379
00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:36,460
you're right you're completely right did

380
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:40,020
it it's almost an honor amongst thieves

381
00:18:45,299 --> 00:18:42,490
how do you respond to something like

382
00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:45,309
that well there's a couple of things

383
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:48,040
there because on the one hand it's quite

384
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:50,080
hard to know exactly what's going on on

385
00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:52,360
these sites and there's a lot of phony

386
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:53,790
and fake sites you know the

387
00:19:00,000 --> 00:18:56,799
assassination markets and guns for sale

388
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:00,010
and hit men for hire of course me as a

389
00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:02,830
researcher I can't really test that

390
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:04,870
without getting myself into serious

391
00:19:11,370 --> 00:19:09,370
trouble and so it's a mysterious world

392
00:19:13,289 --> 00:19:11,380
because very hard sometimes to know

393
00:19:16,409 --> 00:19:13,299
whether actually that website that

394
00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:16,419
purports to be a kidnapping site is

395
00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:20,020
actually being run by the FBI and you

396
00:19:26,159 --> 00:19:23,230
never quite know now we can talk about

397
00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:26,169
the drugs markets because I can tell you

398
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,820
exactly how they operate and they're

399
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:29,440
very very surprising and

400
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:32,320
almost entirely misunderstood by

401
00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:34,000
everyone that's ever reported on them

402
00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:36,190
but your honor amongst thieves points

403
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,350
interesting because you're absolutely

404
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:41,039
right and in every single internet

405
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:44,559
subculture that I have studied doesn't

406
00:19:52,169 --> 00:19:47,440
matter how open or how disgusting it is

407
00:19:54,269 --> 00:19:52,179
you find the same dynamics so I was

408
00:19:59,419 --> 00:19:54,279
studying for example illegal pornography

409
00:20:04,970 --> 00:19:59,429
networks individuals who would amass

410
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:04,980
enormous volumes of illegal films and

411
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:10,210
footage and images of children and would

412
00:20:14,220 --> 00:20:12,250
boast about it and would compete with

413
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:14,230
other people to have the best collection

414
00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:17,679
to be known as the best collector with

415
00:20:22,889 --> 00:20:20,740
particular images and so on that others

416
00:20:28,379 --> 00:20:22,899
didn't have and they would complain

417
00:20:33,389 --> 00:20:28,389
amongst themselves about so the rest of

418
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:33,399
the and I quote community and what the

419
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:36,129
subject matter is is terrible is

420
00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:39,340
appalling but the behavior and the type

421
00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:44,049
of competitive and and the sort of

422
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:47,470
community spirit among these people it's

423
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:48,970
almost exactly the same as you'll find

424
00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:52,720
in us in a soccer forum in a Facebook

425
00:20:57,570 --> 00:20:56,350
group about a pop band and yet that was

426
00:20:59,879 --> 00:20:57,580
one of the things that I found most

427
00:21:02,430 --> 00:20:59,889
surprising that this is the sort of

428
00:21:04,379 --> 00:21:02,440
innate human behavior online it doesn't

429
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,389
matter what you're talking about we all

430
00:21:10,499 --> 00:21:06,480
end up behaving in much the same way

431
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:10,509
have you have you in your journalistic

432
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:14,080
research for research purposes only have

433
00:21:19,049 --> 00:21:16,330
you made an online purchase from the

434
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:19,059
darknet oh yes well I made an online

435
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:22,809
purchase of one gram of marijuana a very

436
00:21:27,619 --> 00:21:25,330
small amount and one that I felt that I

437
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:27,629
could defend with a public interest test

438
00:21:35,369 --> 00:21:32,250
and how easy was it was a frightening

439
00:21:37,619 --> 00:21:35,379
not not absolutely not at all it was

440
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:37,629
just it was a let me say it was a

441
00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:41,110
wonderful consumer experience and that

442
00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:42,820
is the point of the dark

443
00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:45,820
at markets everyone talks about the

444
00:21:51,389 --> 00:21:48,580
amazing cryptography the bitcoin

445
00:21:52,620 --> 00:21:51,399
cryptocurrency the use of the tor

446
00:21:54,419 --> 00:21:52,630
browser all of that stuff's very

447
00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:54,429
interesting of course and that is what

448
00:22:00,690 --> 00:21:57,070
makes these markets work but what's

449
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:00,700
happened with these on line marketplaces

450
00:22:04,499 --> 00:22:02,529
I think is more interesting and it's

451
00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:04,509
that they have created a highly

452
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:07,769
competitive and yet anonymous

453
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:11,730
functioning market for narcotics and

454
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:14,970
what that means is that you have

455
00:22:21,180 --> 00:22:18,070
hundreds of vendors based all around the

456
00:22:24,899 --> 00:22:21,190
world that are desperately competing for

457
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:24,909
the custom of the buyers and suddenly

458
00:22:30,389 --> 00:22:28,000
the power in that transaction has

459
00:22:32,749 --> 00:22:30,399
shifted to the buyers away from the

460
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:32,759
vendors and drugs has always been

461
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:35,919
characterized by a cartels and the noise

462
00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:38,710
and drug lords and you as a user you

463
00:22:43,379 --> 00:22:40,840
don't really have much say of course

464
00:22:45,860 --> 00:22:43,389
here in this marketplace it's completely

465
00:22:48,509 --> 00:22:45,870
different you have the most polite

466
00:22:50,879 --> 00:22:48,519
consumer-centric vendors they reply to

467
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,889
your questions very very promptly they

468
00:22:54,419 --> 00:22:52,720
offer you deals they'll give you a free

469
00:22:56,970 --> 00:22:54,429
refund if you're not happy with your

470
00:23:01,080 --> 00:22:56,980
product and the whole thing is held

471
00:23:03,090 --> 00:23:01,090
together by customer reviews this sort

472
00:23:05,789 --> 00:23:03,100
of intricate system just like we have on

473
00:23:07,860 --> 00:23:05,799
Amazon or Ebay of reviewing the product

474
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:07,870
that you've used and what that means is

475
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:10,330
that because customers have choice they

476
00:23:14,220 --> 00:23:11,919
can change vendors if they're not happy

477
00:23:16,769 --> 00:23:14,230
that forces the vendors to compete with

478
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:16,779
each other and as a result and this is

479
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:19,690
well documented the quality of the

480
00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:22,330
products on these markets has gone up

481
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,720
dramatically so you have seventy eighty

482
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,240
ninety percent purity cocaine compared

483
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:30,159
to a street average in the UK of between

484
00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:32,950
two and thirty percent and the prices go

485
00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:38,289
down and this in a very bizarre and

486
00:23:47,879 --> 00:23:44,590
unexpected way firstly a persuaded me re

487
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:47,889
convinced me of the power of markets to

488
00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:49,710
operate in the interests of consumers

489
00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:53,529
but also made it sort of made me or gave

490
00:23:56,669 --> 00:23:56,440
me a sort of moral or dilemma it was a

491
00:23:58,590 --> 00:23:56,679
good

492
00:24:00,989 --> 00:23:58,600
or a bad thing I was where I was ready

493
00:24:04,019 --> 00:24:00,999
to lift the lid on this and say what a

494
00:24:05,399 --> 00:24:04,029
terrible thing was happening with the

495
00:24:07,409 --> 00:24:05,409
availability of these drugs but I

496
00:24:09,570 --> 00:24:07,419
suddenly realized actually there is

497
00:24:12,690 --> 00:24:09,580
potentially a social and personal

498
00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:12,700
benefit to these markets the problem is

499
00:24:16,109 --> 00:24:14,470
it makes more drugs readily available to

500
00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:16,119
people and that's bad but on the other

501
00:24:22,739 --> 00:24:19,809
side it makes them safer more pure more

502
00:24:24,419 --> 00:24:22,749
predictable you as a consumer have a

503
00:24:26,609 --> 00:24:24,429
better experience getting them and it

504
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:26,619
cuts out a lot of the street crime and

505
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:28,809
so I ended up being actually not

506
00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:30,730
entirely sure what I thought yeah if

507
00:24:34,980 --> 00:24:32,649
you're going to be a if you're a junkie

508
00:24:37,769 --> 00:24:34,990
and and and there's plenty of that out

509
00:24:39,570 --> 00:24:37,779
there and I understand that you know do

510
00:24:42,060 --> 00:24:39,580
you want to risk your life going down to

511
00:24:44,669 --> 00:24:42,070
this street corner to get your crack or

512
00:24:48,299 --> 00:24:44,679
cocaine or whatever arrow in and risk

513
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:48,309
getting robbed or killed or jump out of

514
00:24:55,109 --> 00:24:51,129
the net and have a safe experience a a

515
00:24:59,129 --> 00:24:55,119
true consumer experience and and I don't

516
00:25:01,980 --> 00:24:59,139
know one has to agree with that benefit

517
00:25:04,859 --> 00:25:01,990
but it's also encouraging another part

518
00:25:07,529 --> 00:25:04,869
of society that most of us have issues

519
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:07,539
with so it's kind of a paradox that we

520
00:25:13,769 --> 00:25:10,990
find ourselves in case exactly a paradox

521
00:25:16,049 --> 00:25:13,779
because yes I think that what it does is

522
00:25:20,430 --> 00:25:16,059
certainly you know how many people died

523
00:25:22,919 --> 00:25:20,440
of overdoses in the US alone of not

524
00:25:25,019 --> 00:25:22,929
being sure of what their drug purity is

525
00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:25,029
or having their drugs cut with mixing

526
00:25:28,859 --> 00:25:26,950
agents you know it's like it's a

527
00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:28,869
completely needless waste of life and

528
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:32,860
these markets provide some kind of

529
00:25:36,930 --> 00:25:34,480
protection against that they're not

530
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,940
perfect of course and but they provide

531
00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:39,039
some kind of protection and you're right

532
00:25:43,850 --> 00:25:41,529
it's a paradox and but it's that it's

533
00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:43,860
the right paradox to be thinking about

534
00:25:50,669 --> 00:25:47,080
rather than just seeing these as an

535
00:25:53,369 --> 00:25:50,679
undiluted terrible evil actually seeing

536
00:25:55,950 --> 00:25:53,379
them as a as a bit of a moral quandary

537
00:25:58,350 --> 00:25:55,960
and the way you respond might just

538
00:26:00,359 --> 00:25:58,360
depend on your own worldview but I think

539
00:26:03,749 --> 00:26:00,369
that's the right set of questions and

540
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:03,759
the right considerations to be pondering

541
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:05,950
when we talk about these markets and not

542
00:26:10,409 --> 00:26:08,529
just oh my goodness they're selling

543
00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:10,419
heroin on the internet well

544
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:11,830
yeah they're selling it on the streets

545
00:26:18,299 --> 00:26:16,480
as well so so so you know so yes so so

546
00:26:20,489 --> 00:26:18,309
so yeah and it's worth in a sense

547
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:20,499
everything everything I studied became a

548
00:26:24,029 --> 00:26:22,330
little bit more morally complex and

549
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:24,039
confusing because what we're talking

550
00:26:29,369 --> 00:26:26,730
about here in the end is extending human

551
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:29,379
freedom extending human freedoms are

552
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:30,970
good to do good and to do bad and that

553
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:33,850
always creates these dilemmas Carnegie

554
00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:36,369
Mellon just came out with their report

555
00:26:42,629 --> 00:26:39,609
last week on the dark web and black

556
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:42,639
market sales and they came up with a

557
00:26:49,649 --> 00:26:45,850
figure that I don't necessarily agree

558
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:49,659
with that it's about a hundred million

559
00:26:57,239 --> 00:26:53,470
dollars in sales in drugs per year on

560
00:26:59,580 --> 00:26:57,249
the dark web and they had they used

561
00:27:03,779 --> 00:26:59,590
automated software to scrape the visible

562
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:03,789
contents of 35 dark web markets and came

563
00:27:10,499 --> 00:27:05,679
up with averages you know back to the

564
00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:10,509
user comments and so forth and the size

565
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:14,100
of the sales but that number seems a

566
00:27:21,899 --> 00:27:17,200
normally small a hundred million dollars

567
00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:21,909
what do you think about that figure yes

568
00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:27,580
probably about rut it's gone the

569
00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:29,830
immediate it was I think it was probably

570
00:27:36,379 --> 00:27:32,980
higher the peak of the Silk Road before

571
00:27:41,249 --> 00:27:36,389
the silk road was shut down in October

572
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:41,259
2013 it is it is still small it is still

573
00:27:46,499 --> 00:27:42,970
small gets a disproportionately large

574
00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:46,509
amount of media coverage but it is still

575
00:27:53,749 --> 00:27:48,700
it is still relatively small compared to

576
00:27:57,450 --> 00:27:53,759
the rest of the drugs industry overall

577
00:28:00,570 --> 00:27:57,460
we have seen a steady increase low

578
00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:00,580
steady increase in the volume of

579
00:28:04,289 --> 00:28:02,529
transactions that have taken place with

580
00:28:07,529 --> 00:28:04,299
with blips with ups and downs because

581
00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:07,539
these markets do open and close and it's

582
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:09,820
very hard to be sure how they're going

583
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:12,480
to evolve in the future my view is that

584
00:28:16,889 --> 00:28:15,340
they are constantly getting smarter

585
00:28:19,109 --> 00:28:16,899
they're constantly getting harder to

586
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:19,119
censor they're constantly looking for

587
00:28:22,570 --> 00:28:21,369
ways to innovate so they will continue

588
00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:22,580
to grow and

589
00:28:25,810 --> 00:28:24,230
reason they'll continue to gross because

590
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:25,820
they offer such a good benefits to

591
00:28:29,710 --> 00:28:28,070
consumers but your butt at the moment

592
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:29,720
yes I mean compared to the amount of

593
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:31,250
drugs that are being born sold on a

594
00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:33,890
daily basis all over the world it's

595
00:28:37,810 --> 00:28:36,169
still small because you do need to have

596
00:28:39,340 --> 00:28:37,820
a bit of technical know-how I mean for

597
00:28:43,210 --> 00:28:39,350
the first thing you need to be able to

598
00:28:46,990 --> 00:28:43,220
get bitcoins onto your you know into

599
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:47,000
your onto your computer and that yet for

600
00:28:52,029 --> 00:28:49,010
a lot of people as well who want drugs a

601
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:52,039
lot of people how do I put it they

602
00:28:57,100 --> 00:28:55,370
wanted the drugs now they're having a

603
00:28:59,409 --> 00:28:57,110
party and the drugs have run out and

604
00:29:01,360 --> 00:28:59,419
they want some more and they're not

605
00:29:02,769 --> 00:29:01,370
going to wait three days for a package

606
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:02,779
to arrive in the post while some of them

607
00:29:06,490 --> 00:29:04,940
might but on the whole they want them

608
00:29:08,350 --> 00:29:06,500
now and this is that this is the sort of

609
00:29:11,259 --> 00:29:08,360
this is what drives a lot of the street

610
00:29:14,889 --> 00:29:11,269
trade it's that immediacy and I wonder

611
00:29:17,769 --> 00:29:14,899
if these markets can come up with a way

612
00:29:21,340 --> 00:29:17,779
of responding to that that real-time

613
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:21,350
demand that would be a game changer yeah

614
00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:24,590
if PayPal and bike messengers got

615
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:29,750
involved uh yeah and who knows who's who

616
00:29:34,029 --> 00:29:32,450
knows who knows who knows I mean it's so

617
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:34,039
difficult to predict how things are

618
00:29:37,149 --> 00:29:35,450
going to turn out but I tell you what

619
00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:37,159
they are always looking for ways of

620
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:39,230
innovating and growing so I bet you they

621
00:29:49,889 --> 00:29:43,010
are on this yes and I wanted to ask you

622
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:49,899
when the well let's back up actually

623
00:30:00,330 --> 00:29:55,039
when Ross Ulbricht first started his

624
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:00,340
online forum comments about his

625
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:04,490
emotional approach to the Silk Road and

626
00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:10,510
the darknet about honesty about safety

627
00:30:15,879 --> 00:30:13,100
reputations and and his entire

628
00:30:19,539 --> 00:30:15,889
philosophy for establishing the Silk

629
00:30:23,379 --> 00:30:19,549
Road was a message that attracted bees

630
00:30:26,139 --> 00:30:23,389
to honey this philosophy that they tried

631
00:30:28,509 --> 00:30:26,149
to continue but that philosophy went

632
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:28,519
away and speaking specifically about

633
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:35,400
these guys stealing from each other and

634
00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:37,930
websites being shut down and collections

635
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:41,470
of Bitcoin and his original philosophy

636
00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:44,770
methodology seemed to go away and that

637
00:30:49,530 --> 00:30:47,320
trust went away why do you think that

638
00:30:52,670 --> 00:30:49,540
happened they let go of such a good

639
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:52,680
thing that Silk Road had established

640
00:30:58,920 --> 00:30:57,010
yeah yeah you know money tends to have a

641
00:31:01,710 --> 00:30:58,930
corrupting influence doesn't it and

642
00:31:04,410 --> 00:31:01,720
you're right that there was a philosophy

643
00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:04,420
and there is still as a philosophy not

644
00:31:08,850 --> 00:31:06,460
necessarily on all of these markets but

645
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,860
in some of them and within the broader

646
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,480
community of people that are interested

647
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:13,120
in the dark net and crypto currencies

648
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:17,830
that this kind of technology that allows

649
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:20,320
the transactions between individuals

650
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:21,970
without governments getting involved

651
00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:25,060
with with protect with sort of privacy

652
00:31:31,410 --> 00:31:28,870
protections is a better way of resolving

653
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:31,420
many of society's problems whether

654
00:31:36,180 --> 00:31:33,970
that's the war on drugs or whether

655
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:36,190
that's the ability of political parties

656
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:37,510
and people to communicate with each

657
00:31:42,060 --> 00:31:39,310
other now that was part of the original

658
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:42,070
plan but yet though so much money

659
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:44,530
started pouring into these sites you

660
00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:47,050
know new dealers started turning up old

661
00:31:50,610 --> 00:31:49,030
drug dealers that suddenly realized

662
00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:50,620
there was an opportunity to get involved

663
00:31:55,470 --> 00:31:52,380
on the drop on the on the on the online

664
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:55,480
trade people that saw an opportunity to

665
00:32:00,390 --> 00:31:58,000
create a site and then Nick every steal

666
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:00,400
everybody's Bitcoin and run off you know

667
00:32:05,070 --> 00:32:02,530
it's just attracted because it's a

668
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:05,080
lawless space the attractive people who

669
00:32:12,150 --> 00:32:09,010
behave in lawless ways and so absolutely

670
00:32:13,770 --> 00:32:12,160
it sort of degenerated a little bit but

671
00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:13,780
there is still but can I just say there

672
00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:15,880
is still a community how there they are

673
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:17,950
still working on ways of making this

674
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:22,770
trustless anonymous marketplace

675
00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:25,840
decentralized marketplace actually work

676
00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:32,260
for consumers it if you if you poke

677
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:34,630
around on the darknet you get your you

678
00:32:39,330 --> 00:32:36,970
know you download your tour browser and

679
00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:39,340
you figure out what onion means and you

680
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:41,140
decide to go and dip your toe in the

681
00:32:46,649 --> 00:32:45,610
pool right yeah you are in danger at any

682
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:46,659
point of

683
00:32:51,869 --> 00:32:49,330
clicking on something that you may see

684
00:32:55,379 --> 00:32:51,879
something that we may change your life

685
00:32:58,019 --> 00:32:55,389
forever that book yeah that will burn a

686
00:33:01,200 --> 00:32:58,029
hole into your retina and you will never

687
00:33:04,940 --> 00:33:01,210
get rid of what you're about to see with

688
00:33:08,099 --> 00:33:04,950
with that and I'm not in any way

689
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:08,109
exaggerating but we are up against a

690
00:33:12,210 --> 00:33:10,330
heartbreak when we come back after the

691
00:33:16,049 --> 00:33:12,220
break Jaime I want you to think about

692
00:33:19,399 --> 00:33:16,059
this during the break would you you know

693
00:33:22,589 --> 00:33:19,409
your close friends your family would you

694
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:22,599
have them go and check out the dark web

695
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:25,450
would you give them that advice would

696
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:28,090
you have them go and click on some

697
00:33:32,879 --> 00:33:31,210
random link think about that this is

698
00:33:35,609 --> 00:33:32,889
fade to black i'm your host Jimmy church

699
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:35,619
tonight live from the UK jamie bartlett

700
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:38,830
and his book the dark net we'll be back

701
00:34:04,120 --> 00:33:59,850
way out here we listen to Jimmy church

702
00:34:06,159 --> 00:34:04,130
you're listening to fade to black always

703
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:06,169
on the edge of the hottest alternative

704
00:34:16,990 --> 00:34:09,440
talk chili church with fade to black k

705
00:34:19,359 --> 00:34:17,000
gr a radio com hey everybody what's up

706
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:19,369
Jimmy Church of fade to black and check

707
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,090
this out the 2015 mufon symposium will

708
00:34:28,359 --> 00:34:25,520
be held this September 24 through the

709
00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:28,369
27th in beautiful downtown Irvine

710
00:34:33,730 --> 00:34:31,250
California spanning ufology opening new

711
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doors in academia industry and media

712
00:34:39,399 --> 00:34:36,740
former defense minister of canada Paul

713
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:39,409
Hellyer will be there in person former

714
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:42,560
CNN news anchor cheryl jones TV news

715
00:34:48,490 --> 00:34:45,020
journalist Jaime Busan and mu fonts

716
00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:48,500
chief photo analyst Mark Dantonio there

717
00:34:54,369 --> 00:34:50,780
just a few of the growing list of names

718
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for the 2015 event it's September 24th

719
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through the 27th at the beautiful hotel

720
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:00,530
irvine get your tickets today at mufon

721
00:35:10,750 --> 00:35:05,170
symposium com that's mufon symposium com

722
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Gobekli Tepe I your cousin else he would

723
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only lose you get the package which

724
00:35:21,870 --> 00:35:20,190
did you ever turn to your radio for your

725
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:21,880
favorite talk show to find that it's

726
00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:29,710
been preempted for this for this and I'm

727
00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:32,049
ashamed of you Hillary for voting for do

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you have a favorite talk radio program

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that's not available in your city just

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731
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739
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746
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your favorite talk radio show you are

747
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:19,210
listening to fade to black with Jimmy

748
00:36:26,609 --> 00:36:23,920
church on the game change in network hi

749
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:26,619
I'm Lisa Vance you're listening to me

750
00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:29,200
church this is revolution the revolution

751
00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:32,920
will not be televised the revolution is

752
00:37:21,140 --> 00:36:54,470
you

753
00:37:25,529 --> 00:37:23,460
okay welcome back to fade to black on my

754
00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:25,539
host Jimmy church tonight we have live

755
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:27,880
from the UK jamie bartlett and his book

756
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:31,420
the dark nets don't forget next monday

757
00:37:35,039 --> 00:37:33,249
we have Corey good and David Wilcock

758
00:37:38,099 --> 00:37:35,049
right here on fade to black on an

759
00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:38,109
exclusive do follow us on twitter at JT

760
00:37:44,759 --> 00:37:41,380
radio email is Jimmy at jimmy church

761
00:37:48,450 --> 00:37:44,769
radio.com Jamie I said before the break

762
00:37:52,049 --> 00:37:48,460
I was going to ask would you have a

763
00:37:55,739 --> 00:37:52,059
family member a closed friend would you

764
00:37:58,130 --> 00:37:55,749
give them the advice to go and check out

765
00:38:03,079 --> 00:37:58,140
the dark web to go click on some

766
00:38:06,839 --> 00:38:03,089
anonymous link and to go and explore and

767
00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:06,849
I would give the advice if I gave advice

768
00:38:12,210 --> 00:38:09,400
to anyone to go on there it would be

769
00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:12,220
with a lot of caveats and a lot of

770
00:38:15,749 --> 00:38:13,990
precautions that they should take and

771
00:38:17,819 --> 00:38:15,759
the first thing I would say is don't

772
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:17,829
just go clicking on links that you don't

773
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:20,410
trust what you say that anyway on the

774
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:21,730
normal internet don't you but it's

775
00:38:26,279 --> 00:38:24,970
definitely more dangerous there there's

776
00:38:29,130 --> 00:38:26,289
another side of this you're absolutely

777
00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:29,140
right that you know it's it you can

778
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:31,089
click on the wrong thing and God knows

779
00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:33,730
what you'll see and you'll never forget

780
00:38:37,979 --> 00:38:35,529
as they say on the intern internet

781
00:38:40,140 --> 00:38:37,989
culture you can't unsee look at what

782
00:38:41,609 --> 00:38:40,150
you've seen and that's it that's

783
00:38:43,019 --> 00:38:41,619
definitely a worry and i think that's

784
00:38:46,019 --> 00:38:43,029
certainly something that keeps people

785
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:46,029
were a from from this part of the net

786
00:38:49,739 --> 00:38:48,249
quite understandably so but you know

787
00:38:53,099 --> 00:38:49,749
there's another side of this as well

788
00:38:54,749 --> 00:38:53,109
which is when you are going onto the

789
00:38:57,839 --> 00:38:54,759
dock now one of the first places you

790
00:39:00,029 --> 00:38:57,849
tend to go is an index page and if

791
00:39:02,670 --> 00:39:00,039
you've taken a look as I'm sure you have

792
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:02,680
uh-huh you'll know that it's one of

793
00:39:07,259 --> 00:39:04,720
these kind of a sort of centralized Bank

794
00:39:10,109 --> 00:39:07,269
of different links to different sites

795
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:10,119
because because all the URLs are just

796
00:39:14,190 --> 00:39:11,920
strings of numbers and letters it's not

797
00:39:16,739 --> 00:39:14,200
very easy to navigate is it you you need

798
00:39:20,009 --> 00:39:16,749
some guidance you need some help and so

799
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:20,019
these index pages list the most popular

800
00:39:24,989 --> 00:39:22,210
sites and I think the terrifying thing

801
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:24,999
about it is that you have a list of say

802
00:39:30,029 --> 00:39:27,130
you know commercial services and

803
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:30,039
there'll be a dozen links to some of

804
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:30,730
these dark

805
00:39:35,099 --> 00:39:32,520
marcus and then you'll have another

806
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:35,109
section which is for political activism

807
00:39:40,109 --> 00:39:37,690
and you'll have another dozen links for

808
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:40,119
that and then you'll have a section

809
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:43,330
which says child pornography and then it

810
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:46,810
just has a load early it's again and the

811
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:50,890
fact that it is sort of so it's so easy

812
00:39:56,190 --> 00:39:53,770
and it looks so similar to the rest of

813
00:39:59,310 --> 00:39:56,200
the links that you've seen and it just

814
00:40:01,859 --> 00:39:59,320
doesn't look out of place it is very

815
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:01,869
very confusing because it's not

816
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:05,680
something you expect to find and I and I

817
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:07,240
suspect may be some people that have

818
00:40:12,090 --> 00:40:08,950
that have gone on to these sites and

819
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:12,100
just out of morbid curiosity have just

820
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:14,290
clicked on these links just thinking our

821
00:40:20,070 --> 00:40:17,410
idea that can't be the case or run or no

822
00:40:22,890 --> 00:40:20,080
one will find me and so you know maybe I

823
00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:22,900
just that the barriers are lowered I

824
00:40:26,820 --> 00:40:25,270
suppose is what I'm trying to say and it

825
00:40:28,650 --> 00:40:26,830
becomes so familiar to you that it

826
00:40:31,590 --> 00:40:28,660
doesn't seem like just clicking on a

827
00:40:34,020 --> 00:40:31,600
link is a big deal and of course it it's

828
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:34,030
a really big deal and so yes you've got

829
00:40:37,740 --> 00:40:36,130
to be very very careful not just to

830
00:40:39,420 --> 00:40:37,750
click on the wrong link but that you

831
00:40:41,130 --> 00:40:39,430
don't get lazy that you don't get

832
00:40:42,660 --> 00:40:41,140
complacent Lee you don't start thinking

833
00:40:44,099 --> 00:40:42,670
I was just a link it's nothing it

834
00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:44,109
doesn't matter i can click it no one

835
00:40:48,090 --> 00:40:46,420
will know well that's not quite true and

836
00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:48,100
you can end up somewhere that you really

837
00:40:57,570 --> 00:40:50,950
really didn't want to be yeah I have to

838
00:41:01,020 --> 00:40:57,580
ask Jamie I know I know and you know you

839
00:41:04,349 --> 00:41:01,030
you clicked on something that that you

840
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:04,359
will never forget take me to that moment

841
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:05,890
you don't have to say what the content

842
00:41:12,990 --> 00:41:10,390
was but you saw something that truly

843
00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:13,000
changed you I take me to that moment and

844
00:41:18,030 --> 00:41:16,420
how did you feel well I'm so with which

845
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:18,040
what what what are you actually

846
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:20,890
referring to that telecoil look there

847
00:41:24,090 --> 00:41:22,390
were quite a lot of things I saw that

848
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,100
were profoundly shocking and they

849
00:41:30,140 --> 00:41:26,800
weren't all on the dark net some of them

850
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:30,150
were on the normal internet sure sure

851
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:34,480
but when you are when you're probing

852
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:36,690
around something like the dark net way

853
00:41:42,990 --> 00:41:40,960
you know in most cases everybody would

854
00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:43,000
think they shouldn't be there you know

855
00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:44,660
it's like going to the

856
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:46,940
red light district in Amsterdam you know

857
00:41:51,069 --> 00:41:48,770
it's it's like you're walking up the

858
00:41:53,130 --> 00:41:51,079
street that maybe your wife shouldn't

859
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:53,140
know that you're here kind of thing and

860
00:42:00,250 --> 00:41:57,530
and and at that moment you know you know

861
00:42:02,410 --> 00:42:00,260
that you probably shouldn't be doing

862
00:42:04,990 --> 00:42:02,420
this and.and you do and that's what I'm

863
00:42:07,569 --> 00:42:05,000
referring to you at that moment you know

864
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:07,579
that hesitation before you right or left

865
00:42:16,990 --> 00:42:11,359
click the mouse you did and and how did

866
00:42:18,730 --> 00:42:17,000
it change you I mean well well just just

867
00:42:21,849 --> 00:42:18,740
to be clear we're talking about the

868
00:42:25,359 --> 00:42:21,859
illegal pornography it could be that it

869
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:25,369
could be a hitman site it could be it

870
00:42:32,170 --> 00:42:29,170
could be anything but I'm just saying uh

871
00:42:34,410 --> 00:42:32,180
your heart your adrenaline and that

872
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:34,420
moment must have been pretty intense

873
00:42:43,230 --> 00:42:40,010
well yeah I mean III took extreme care

874
00:42:46,180 --> 00:42:43,240
and not to click on anything that was a

875
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:46,190
illegal pornography and right yeah I had

876
00:42:50,890 --> 00:42:48,650
to be incredibly careful about that for

877
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:50,900
obviously obvious legal and personal

878
00:42:53,950 --> 00:42:52,880
reasons and sorry I never clicked on

879
00:42:56,859 --> 00:42:53,960
anything that I thought was going to

880
00:42:59,680 --> 00:42:56,869
take me to one of these sites what what

881
00:43:01,539 --> 00:42:59,690
was shocking was when I was yeah i mean

882
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:01,549
just browsing through these index pages

883
00:43:06,970 --> 00:43:03,680
and then you sort of you suddenly

884
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:06,980
realize that your your mouse your little

885
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:09,170
mouse cursor is hovering over a link

886
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:12,170
that will take you to an illegal

887
00:43:18,910 --> 00:43:16,460
pornography site and one click one tiny

888
00:43:21,370 --> 00:43:18,920
click with your finger could completely

889
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:21,380
change your life and there's a course of

890
00:43:26,140 --> 00:43:23,599
that morbid curiosity that you want to

891
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:26,150
know whether that's true or not and

892
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:27,529
that's what i'm talking about i think

893
00:43:33,130 --> 00:43:29,690
some people could easily get sucked into

894
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:33,140
that and but i certainly didn't I mean

895
00:43:37,569 --> 00:43:35,150
and but it was a tariff sort of a

896
00:43:41,370 --> 00:43:37,579
terrifying moment because you're just

897
00:43:44,769 --> 00:43:41,380
you're confronted with this just this

898
00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:44,779
unbelievable opportunity and I say that

899
00:43:50,430 --> 00:43:47,630
not in a good way right to really mess

900
00:43:53,529 --> 00:43:50,440
your life up with such a small physical

901
00:43:56,380 --> 00:43:53,539
movement if you see what I mean in it it

902
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:56,390
almost feels it almost feels like to do

903
00:44:01,650 --> 00:43:57,850
something that bad she

904
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:01,660
be that easy and that's what that's what

905
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:03,790
sort of complicated about it and that's

906
00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:05,770
what I think actually for people to get

907
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:08,920
convicted of this type of crime and a

908
00:44:13,710 --> 00:44:11,650
growing number of people do by accessing

909
00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:13,720
illegal pornography I think they

910
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:16,270
persuade themselves of that I think they

911
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:19,330
tell themselves it's not that bad it's

912
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:21,670
just clicking a link I'm not hurting

913
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:23,890
anybody it's so simple if it's that

914
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:26,110
simple it can't be that evil can it it's

915
00:44:31,230 --> 00:44:28,810
not like i'm taking a gun and going and

916
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:31,240
shooting somebody on the street and I

917
00:44:35,850 --> 00:44:33,010
think that sort of disconnect between

918
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:35,860
the physical act and the seriousness of

919
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:38,110
what you've done is one of the reasons

920
00:44:42,570 --> 00:44:39,970
that the more and more people are

921
00:44:48,140 --> 00:44:42,580
getting a getting arrested for doing

922
00:44:51,660 --> 00:44:48,150
this how how much is a government

923
00:44:56,100 --> 00:44:51,670
agencies figured out how to track and

924
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:56,110
trace on the darknet uh yeah that's such

925
00:45:00,930 --> 00:44:58,930
a difficult question and I don't know

926
00:45:04,460 --> 00:45:00,940
what the NSA can do I don't know what

927
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:04,470
the FBI can do I certainly know that

928
00:45:11,730 --> 00:45:08,050
they have gotten a lot better at it over

929
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:11,740
the last two or three years they have

930
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:14,730
gotten a lot better at the sort of

931
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:17,920
classic police work of if it's not

932
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:20,050
cracking the network or it's not

933
00:45:25,020 --> 00:45:21,910
breaking the encryption it's

934
00:45:27,210 --> 00:45:25,030
infiltrating the sites it's being

935
00:45:29,940 --> 00:45:27,220
undercover agents in these communities

936
00:45:31,740 --> 00:45:29,950
online and catching people in the

937
00:45:33,930 --> 00:45:31,750
old-fashioned way by them giving

938
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:33,940
something away or making a mistake and

939
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:36,370
the majority of times that people get

940
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:37,870
caught I think is because if they're

941
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:39,730
making human mistakes they give away

942
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:41,530
something too much they don't download

943
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:43,570
the software properly something like

944
00:45:49,950 --> 00:45:47,230
that and we humans always make mistakes

945
00:45:51,930 --> 00:45:49,960
we always make things and so they're

946
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:51,940
getting a lot better they're getting a

947
00:45:58,020 --> 00:45:54,550
lot better policing this area and you

948
00:45:59,520 --> 00:45:58,030
know for me I think it's a completely

949
00:46:00,810 --> 00:45:59,530
understandable that they do I mean

950
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:00,820
there's some terrible things going on

951
00:46:08,310 --> 00:46:02,170
there so I want them to be able to do

952
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:08,320
that when it took so long to to you know

953
00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:11,530
catch up to silk road and Ross Ulbricht

954
00:46:16,530 --> 00:46:14,950
it's a and that police work to as well I

955
00:46:19,290 --> 00:46:16,540
think there was a lot of accidents that

956
00:46:21,060 --> 00:46:19,300
happened to a chase him down and also

957
00:46:24,060 --> 00:46:21,070
there's parts of this case that will

958
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:24,070
never know about you know the search and

959
00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:26,110
seizure of the servers and so forth and

960
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:28,510
how that happened if that was legal or

961
00:46:34,260 --> 00:46:30,850
not but it took a long time and then

962
00:46:38,100 --> 00:46:34,270
after Silk Road went down it seemed like

963
00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:38,110
anybody now was vulnerable and and these

964
00:46:43,470 --> 00:46:40,630
sites were were being brought down and

965
00:46:44,970 --> 00:46:43,480
people were actually caught very easily

966
00:46:46,410 --> 00:46:44,980
after that do you think that they

967
00:46:53,250 --> 00:46:46,420
figured out something that they're not

968
00:46:55,950 --> 00:46:53,260
leading on I'm not i don't think so I my

969
00:46:58,590 --> 00:46:55,960
understanding is that the software the

970
00:47:01,980 --> 00:46:58,600
actual sort of the encryption that run

971
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:01,990
the tour runs on and that the dark net

972
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:04,330
sites they're technically called tor

973
00:47:12,060 --> 00:47:08,170
hidden services is pretty sound it's

974
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:12,070
pretty soundin but clearly every now and

975
00:47:17,850 --> 00:47:14,890
again understandably the authorities

976
00:47:19,410 --> 00:47:17,860
will have a raid they will bust a load

977
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:19,420
of sites they'll be working on this for

978
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:20,890
a long time and one of the reasons

979
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:22,960
they'll do that often in a coordinated

980
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:25,930
effort is to remind people hey we're

981
00:47:31,410 --> 00:47:28,090
here we're watching you you're not

982
00:47:32,610 --> 00:47:31,420
completely beyond our reach and so even

983
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:32,620
if they're struggling they will

984
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:34,570
occasionally do a raid I think because

985
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:36,280
they want to make people i'm sure they

986
00:47:39,570 --> 00:47:37,810
don't want people to know that it's safe

987
00:47:42,270 --> 00:47:39,580
of course they don't they need to know

988
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:42,280
that the police are watching them now

989
00:47:49,980 --> 00:47:47,920
III I couldn't there there is something

990
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:49,990
of an arms race going on there is

991
00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:51,310
something of an arms race going on

992
00:47:57,570 --> 00:47:54,670
between the authorities always trying to

993
00:48:00,000 --> 00:47:57,580
catch up with the encryption and the

994
00:48:02,340 --> 00:48:00,010
software is being developed and the

995
00:48:03,690 --> 00:48:02,350
other side trying to evade them and a

996
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,700
lot of this software is being developed

997
00:48:08,490 --> 00:48:05,920
for the journalists bullsh even rights

998
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:08,500
activists for the Democrats around the

999
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:11,410
world the very good reasons but this

1000
00:48:16,350 --> 00:48:13,450
usually gets picked up by the bad guys

1001
00:48:18,450 --> 00:48:16,360
first as well and I'm not sure that it's

1002
00:48:22,350 --> 00:48:18,460
perfect but I do know this it's making

1003
00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:22,360
the authorities work harder and with its

1004
00:48:25,410 --> 00:48:24,430
harder it means they have to spend more

1005
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:25,420
money and more

1006
00:48:30,839 --> 00:48:28,450
time to get the same effect and that

1007
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:30,849
means more people get away without being

1008
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:35,770
called what I with I'm just going off of

1009
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:39,040
my memory here but you had utopia black

1010
00:48:47,130 --> 00:48:43,890
market reloaded I'm trying to think

1011
00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:47,140
Pandora you can have yeah you're gonna

1012
00:48:51,839 --> 00:48:50,680
have to help me here agoura y yo y on

1013
00:48:54,450 --> 00:48:51,849
that you're naming all that you're

1014
00:48:56,339 --> 00:48:54,460
naming all the biggest one silkroad to

1015
00:48:59,609 --> 00:48:56,349
that was cannabis that was kind of this

1016
00:49:01,349 --> 00:48:59,619
market of 1776 market I mean there was

1017
00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:01,359
just you know there's this there's an

1018
00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:04,329
awful awful lot of them and in each one

1019
00:49:08,430 --> 00:49:06,460
of them when you're looking at six

1020
00:49:10,109 --> 00:49:08,440
million dollars in Bitcoin 10 million

1021
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:10,119
dollars five-million-dollar six million

1022
00:49:15,569 --> 00:49:12,490
dollars each one of them was either shut

1023
00:49:19,770 --> 00:49:15,579
down or ripped off their users and it

1024
00:49:21,870 --> 00:49:19,780
seemed to happen on a monthly basis and

1025
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:21,880
still does it's getting more and more

1026
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:24,790
difficult to keep your market up and

1027
00:49:30,690 --> 00:49:27,040
running and and do you think it's

1028
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:30,700
because the thieves the operators of the

1029
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:33,130
markets themselves can't seem to get

1030
00:49:40,859 --> 00:49:37,980
along like the old days of 2013 or or

1031
00:49:44,940 --> 00:49:40,869
the site that you're clicking on could

1032
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,950
be an NSA site and it's a front well

1033
00:49:50,819 --> 00:49:47,440
look i'm pretty sure i mean i would say

1034
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:50,829
that the FBI or the NSA weren't really

1035
00:49:56,339 --> 00:49:54,130
doing their jobs if they if they didn't

1036
00:49:59,640 --> 00:49:56,349
try to set up fake markets and then pull

1037
00:50:01,799 --> 00:49:59,650
them down to ruin confidence in the

1038
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:01,809
network that is what they're supposed to

1039
00:50:06,270 --> 00:50:04,480
do I am sure they're doing that i would

1040
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:06,280
expect them to be doing that in a way

1041
00:50:11,940 --> 00:50:10,000
i'd be hoping they'd do that sure so so

1042
00:50:14,220 --> 00:50:11,950
that's part of it and i think i think

1043
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:14,230
one of the sort of the strategies by the

1044
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:16,960
authorities is to is to try to destroy

1045
00:50:23,339 --> 00:50:19,930
confidence in these markets as being a

1046
00:50:25,230 --> 00:50:23,349
place you can go to securely but there

1047
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:25,240
is a sort of next generation of markets

1048
00:50:31,170 --> 00:50:27,040
coming up which are more decentralized

1049
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:31,180
where you have you know multi signature

1050
00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:33,520
escrow payment models which give you a

1051
00:50:39,210 --> 00:50:35,950
bit more protection as the consumer like

1052
00:50:41,730 --> 00:50:39,220
if the site goes down your bitcoins will

1053
00:50:45,330 --> 00:50:41,740
returned to you there are places that

1054
00:50:47,550 --> 00:50:45,340
are trying to separate the functions of

1055
00:50:49,950 --> 00:50:47,560
running the spy from the transactions

1056
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:49,960
themselves there's all sorts of exciting

1057
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:52,570
innovation i say exciting in a very sort

1058
00:50:59,460 --> 00:50:57,040
of objective way and exciting and

1059
00:51:02,099 --> 00:50:59,470
interesting innovations as these as the

1060
00:51:04,109 --> 00:51:02,109
people who continue to try to develop

1061
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:04,119
ways to stay one step out of the

1062
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:07,330
authorities are i can assure you every

1063
00:51:12,210 --> 00:51:10,240
time that a market goes down and there's

1064
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:12,220
a flurry of activity to work out what

1065
00:51:15,839 --> 00:51:14,410
happened as someone tries to come up

1066
00:51:19,859 --> 00:51:15,849
with a clever way around it and that

1067
00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:19,869
will continue to open this isn't way we

1068
00:51:26,670 --> 00:51:22,950
sort of talked about this earlier but

1069
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:26,680
it's one thing to have a you know a drug

1070
00:51:31,530 --> 00:51:29,170
addict a junkie on the street that is

1071
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:31,540
dealing with dollars that's that the

1072
00:51:37,890 --> 00:51:34,000
traditional thing and to step up and to

1073
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:37,900
purchase drugs with Bitcoin now brings

1074
00:51:43,380 --> 00:51:41,290
in another type of drug addict you know

1075
00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:43,390
says somebody with some sophistication

1076
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:46,780
the ability to acquire bitcoins know how

1077
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:49,839
to use them and what does that suggest

1078
00:51:55,770 --> 00:51:53,200
who these actual purchasers are is it a

1079
00:51:58,980 --> 00:51:55,780
different segment of society is it

1080
00:52:04,550 --> 00:51:58,990
businessmen businesswomen somebody

1081
00:52:09,230 --> 00:52:04,560
that's try a stock market I sit here yet

1082
00:52:12,450 --> 00:52:09,240
radio Oh DJ's you know anyone yes right

1083
00:52:14,250 --> 00:52:12,460
well well yeah I mean I think certainly

1084
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:14,260
for now it's a different probably is it

1085
00:52:19,140 --> 00:52:17,200
slightly different type of clientele and

1086
00:52:20,609 --> 00:52:19,150
I think there's a lot of students that

1087
00:52:22,380 --> 00:52:20,619
are using it I think there's a lot of

1088
00:52:24,660 --> 00:52:22,390
what you might call boutique users

1089
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:24,670
people who are interested in this very

1090
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:27,369
particular strand of MDMA that you can't

1091
00:52:32,609 --> 00:52:29,920
on get anywhere else in the world apart

1092
00:52:35,790 --> 00:52:32,619
from this market or cannabis aficionado

1093
00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:35,800
so you are I think for now anyway and

1094
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:37,510
that's one of the reasons the sales are

1095
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:39,910
still relatively small you're talking

1096
00:52:43,079 --> 00:52:41,920
about a particular type of buyer and

1097
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:43,089
you're also talking about a particular

1098
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:46,930
type of seller you've got you know some

1099
00:52:51,660 --> 00:52:49,390
people have set up almost logistics

1100
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:51,670
companies where they buy in bulk from

1101
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:52,250
once

1102
00:53:00,880 --> 00:52:56,690
right and then they resell retail to

1103
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:00,890
another site with a small mark and we're

1104
00:53:05,710 --> 00:53:03,200
talking about you know people that if

1105
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:05,720
these companies run really just like a

1106
00:53:10,690 --> 00:53:08,690
boring logistics company parceling

1107
00:53:13,810 --> 00:53:10,700
things up sending them off taking your

1108
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:13,820
cut and so on what worries me is that

1109
00:53:17,590 --> 00:53:15,290
it's the fact that you might you might

1110
00:53:20,350 --> 00:53:17,600
end up accidentally creating a new

1111
00:53:22,660 --> 00:53:20,360
generation of drug dealers let me paint

1112
00:53:25,450 --> 00:53:22,670
you this picture you are a student on

1113
00:53:27,610 --> 00:53:25,460
your university campus you're a bit more

1114
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:27,620
tech savvy than everybody else you work

1115
00:53:33,070 --> 00:53:30,050
out how to use these darknet markets and

1116
00:53:35,110 --> 00:53:33,080
suddenly you are able to get hold of the

1117
00:53:37,020 --> 00:53:35,120
best cocaine that anyone at the

1118
00:53:40,090 --> 00:53:37,030
university has ever had in their life

1119
00:53:42,310 --> 00:53:40,100
you order start pouring in everybody on

1120
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:42,320
your dorm suddenly wants a piece of this

1121
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:45,710
and before you know it you who was the

1122
00:53:51,550 --> 00:53:49,310
university student is taking in dozens

1123
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:51,560
of orders a week making a huge amount of

1124
00:53:55,090 --> 00:53:53,330
money and you probably think you're

1125
00:53:57,070 --> 00:53:55,100
doing nothing but you know helping your

1126
00:53:59,770 --> 00:53:57,080
friends out well the truth is you become

1127
00:54:02,110 --> 00:53:59,780
a drug dealer right and I'm I am really

1128
00:54:04,540 --> 00:54:02,120
worried that that could be happening

1129
00:54:07,180 --> 00:54:04,550
that may happen to be we create this

1130
00:54:08,620 --> 00:54:07,190
generation of drug dealers and a I don't

1131
00:54:10,780 --> 00:54:08,630
want people to ruin their lives without

1132
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:10,790
recognizing the consequences of what

1133
00:54:17,410 --> 00:54:14,650
they're doing I I want to move on to

1134
00:54:21,580 --> 00:54:17,420
some more darker subjects actually

1135
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:21,590
believe it or not but but what I can't I

1136
00:54:27,460 --> 00:54:24,530
can't leave the drug part of the dark

1137
00:54:30,670 --> 00:54:27,470
net without talking about Ross and and

1138
00:54:36,010 --> 00:54:30,680
what happened to him do you in in your

1139
00:54:38,380 --> 00:54:36,020
research was he was he'd read do you

1140
00:54:40,180 --> 00:54:38,390
think he actually started Silk Road or

1141
00:54:43,060 --> 00:54:40,190
do you think he inherited the site

1142
00:54:48,460 --> 00:54:43,070
because his background would suggest the

1143
00:54:52,780 --> 00:54:48,470
opposite yeah I Rhea I'm really not sure

1144
00:54:54,670 --> 00:54:52,790
I'm really not sure what I are I'm gonna

1145
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:54,680
thinking I think it's it's fairly well

1146
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,930
established that he was he was certainly

1147
00:55:01,480 --> 00:54:58,640
running it during the time that it

1148
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:01,490
reached its heyday he certainly was that

1149
00:55:06,370 --> 00:55:03,730
he was certainly as far as I can tell

1150
00:55:08,830 --> 00:55:06,380
the dread pirate

1151
00:55:13,570 --> 00:55:08,840
that was the there was the spokesperson

1152
00:55:16,210 --> 00:55:13,580
the kingpin the the the pinup of the

1153
00:55:17,830 --> 00:55:16,220
site when it was when it was especially

1154
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:17,840
over two thousand and twelve and

1155
00:55:22,990 --> 00:55:19,810
thirteen when it was turning over

1156
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:23,000
unbelievable volumes as to the found out

1157
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:24,650
what it's all very mysterious isn't it

1158
00:55:29,470 --> 00:55:26,810
it's all very serious indeed nah I

1159
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:29,480
really couldn't be sure have you been in

1160
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:31,370
touch with Ross have you tried to reach

1161
00:55:38,260 --> 00:55:35,930
out to him no in fact I started doing

1162
00:55:40,270 --> 00:55:38,270
the research and I and I and I think I

1163
00:55:41,650 --> 00:55:40,280
tried to direct messaged him at some

1164
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:41,660
point as I was just beginning my

1165
00:55:46,330 --> 00:55:43,910
research and then the site went down

1166
00:55:49,390 --> 00:55:46,340
within about a week it was shot down

1167
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:49,400
within about a week of me starting so no

1168
00:55:55,300 --> 00:55:52,730
opportunity no opportunity for me to do

1169
00:55:59,380 --> 00:55:55,310
that I'm afraid when you look at videos

1170
00:56:03,370 --> 00:55:59,390
of Ross and I know you have a chest he

1171
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:03,380
doesn't fit the mother business model he

1172
00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:08,090
just doesn't look like you're your

1173
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:10,460
typical drug dealer or somebody that you

1174
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:13,490
would picture I mean well he's not he's

1175
00:56:17,230 --> 00:56:15,200
not a drug deal wasn't really a drug

1176
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:17,240
dealer he was running a site and in a

1177
00:56:23,020 --> 00:56:20,000
way this is what's interesting you the

1178
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:23,030
site administrators and the people that

1179
00:56:27,550 --> 00:56:24,970
were keeping this side ticking over they

1180
00:56:29,950 --> 00:56:27,560
don't look like drug dealers because

1181
00:56:32,860 --> 00:56:29,960
when they weren't writers who her more

1182
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:32,870
like hackers / businessman who'd seen a

1183
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:35,890
market and worked out a way of

1184
00:56:42,250 --> 00:56:39,290
connecting consumers and sellers and

1185
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:42,260
taking a tidy profit for themselves and

1186
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:43,730
he certainly looks like someone that

1187
00:56:49,420 --> 00:56:46,930
could do that do you do you feel like

1188
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:49,430
when when you know about his background

1189
00:56:56,340 --> 00:56:52,250
and certainly you know an education in

1190
00:56:59,020 --> 00:56:56,350
in electronics in physics and and

1191
00:57:01,930 --> 00:56:59,030
engineering and and he could have had

1192
00:57:04,570 --> 00:57:01,940
the nicest career ever going and working

1193
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:04,580
for some large corporation and he would

1194
00:57:10,060 --> 00:57:07,040
have had his life set but something

1195
00:57:12,670 --> 00:57:10,070
changed didn't it something changed in

1196
00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:12,680
him morally where he wanted to make the

1197
00:57:18,930 --> 00:57:15,110
world a better place and he was going to

1198
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:18,940
start with silk road and established

1199
00:57:24,270 --> 00:57:21,760
moral ethical with silk road and change

1200
00:57:27,089 --> 00:57:24,280
society what do you think happened why

1201
00:57:29,579 --> 00:57:27,099
did he take that left turn in his life

1202
00:57:32,190 --> 00:57:29,589
and he took out quickly you remember his

1203
00:57:35,550 --> 00:57:32,200
remember his books that he was selling

1204
00:57:38,670 --> 00:57:35,560
and get back to the community and uh yes

1205
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:38,680
he was like uh he was like uh I want to

1206
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:40,569
say this he was like a puppy salesman

1207
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:42,730
you know he was just like a good guy and

1208
00:57:47,940 --> 00:57:46,089
then just wham an epiphany happened what

1209
00:57:49,710 --> 00:57:47,950
do you think that was while he was also

1210
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:49,720
he was also making a huge amount of

1211
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:51,609
money as well let's not forget that ten

1212
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:53,770
thousand dollars a day he was making in

1213
00:58:00,300 --> 00:57:57,280
commission which I'm sure helped but to

1214
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:00,310
me I wondered why wonder whether it

1215
00:58:04,349 --> 00:58:02,650
happens something like this we read a

1216
00:58:06,540 --> 00:58:04,359
lot about people becoming politicized

1217
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:06,550
and radicalized and we often talk about

1218
00:58:12,270 --> 00:58:09,599
it as a particularly at the moment with

1219
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:12,280
you know Islamic state and religious

1220
00:58:16,260 --> 00:58:14,890
fundamentalism and we talk about the way

1221
00:58:19,290 --> 00:58:16,270
that people get sucked into these

1222
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:19,300
ideologies and I wonder whether or not

1223
00:58:24,809 --> 00:58:22,450
it's sort of it it happened a bit to him

1224
00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:24,819
it it but it but towards more

1225
00:58:28,319 --> 00:58:26,680
libertarian thinking you know we know

1226
00:58:30,839 --> 00:58:28,329
that he was interested in Austrian

1227
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:30,849
economics he was probably very

1228
00:58:38,550 --> 00:58:35,010
fascinated by the idea that cryptography

1229
00:58:42,030 --> 00:58:38,560
and network computing offered this

1230
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:42,040
amazing opportunity to to realize the

1231
00:58:47,790 --> 00:58:45,730
dream of a decentralized market place

1232
00:58:50,069 --> 00:58:47,800
between individuals without third

1233
00:58:52,650 --> 00:58:50,079
parties getting involved and the way

1234
00:58:54,030 --> 00:58:52,660
that could change the world and probably

1235
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:54,040
still will change the world he's

1236
00:58:57,930 --> 00:58:55,930
probably not wrong about that he got

1237
00:59:01,230 --> 00:58:57,940
sort of sucked into this idea this

1238
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:01,240
fascinating amazing idea and then I

1239
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:02,710
think probably what happened is the site

1240
00:59:08,370 --> 00:59:06,640
just grew a lot quickly imagine ap maybe

1241
00:59:10,380 --> 00:59:08,380
start imagined that he'd start small and

1242
00:59:13,859 --> 00:59:10,390
then before we knew it he is running him

1243
00:59:15,780 --> 00:59:13,869
and a vast empire far larger than he

1244
00:59:17,250 --> 00:59:15,790
ever anticipated it would be and often

1245
00:59:18,990 --> 00:59:17,260
what you find is that people get sucked

1246
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:19,000
into roles that they weren't necessarily

1247
00:59:25,370 --> 00:59:20,770
planning and then they have no choice

1248
00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:25,380
almost but to play them now with the

1249
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:28,270
invisibility the anonymity that comes

1250
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:32,710
along with the dark net certainly Isis

1251
00:59:38,730 --> 00:59:36,970
terrorists can take advantage of this to

1252
00:59:41,790 --> 00:59:38,740
their just as smart as everybody else

1253
00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:41,800
out there and and obviously extremely

1254
00:59:46,530 --> 00:59:43,660
tech savvy and understand the internet

1255
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:46,540
and social media to as well how do you

1256
00:59:51,210 --> 00:59:48,730
think that that is coming into play with

1257
00:59:53,970 --> 00:59:51,220
the dark net and certainly smearing the

1258
00:59:57,060 --> 00:59:53,980
reputation a little bit further yeah

1259
00:59:58,140 --> 00:59:57,070
they say it's a good question it I'd say

1260
01:00:00,660 --> 00:59:58,150
that yes you're absolutely right

1261
01:00:03,599 --> 01:00:00,670
radicals and terrorists extremists are

1262
01:00:05,579 --> 01:00:03,609
as tech savvy as everybody else but more

1263
01:00:07,470 --> 01:00:05,589
than that they're more motivated than

1264
01:00:09,210 --> 01:00:07,480
everybody else that may have more reason

1265
01:00:12,839 --> 01:00:09,220
to stay hidden than everybody else so

1266
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:12,849
they are almost by definition early

1267
01:00:19,980 --> 01:00:17,920
adopters of this type of tech what we've

1268
01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:19,990
seen particularly since the Edward

1269
01:00:24,030 --> 01:00:21,790
Snowden revelations there's been a

1270
01:00:26,579 --> 01:00:24,040
pretty significant change in the way the

1271
01:00:29,130 --> 01:00:26,589
groups like Islamic state operate they

1272
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:29,140
are watching closely they are using all

1273
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:31,330
the latest gadgets to evade surveillance

1274
01:00:37,589 --> 01:00:34,810
including the tor browser they are using

1275
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:37,599
encrypted messaging services and all of

1276
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:40,930
this stuff I'm sure of it is making the

1277
01:00:46,010 --> 01:00:43,810
job of counterterrorism more difficult

1278
01:00:48,690 --> 01:00:46,020
but let's not exaggerate this because

1279
01:00:50,430 --> 01:00:48,700
they operate they use the internet in

1280
01:00:52,290 --> 01:00:50,440
different ways for different things I

1281
01:00:54,359 --> 01:00:52,300
mean on the one hand when they want to

1282
01:00:56,550 --> 01:00:54,369
communicate privately or they want to

1283
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:56,560
keep their identity hidden guess they'll

1284
01:01:00,960 --> 01:00:58,720
use encryption yes they'll use the tor

1285
01:01:05,579 --> 01:01:00,970
browser but I don't think they're going

1286
01:01:07,740 --> 01:01:05,589
to go on to the dark net itself to try

1287
01:01:09,570 --> 01:01:07,750
to recruit people because they want to

1288
01:01:12,450 --> 01:01:09,580
do that on facebook twitter and youtube

1289
01:01:15,180 --> 01:01:12,460
where everybody is so they have this

1290
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:15,190
weird situation where they on the one

1291
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:17,050
hand they're very secretive they're very

1292
01:01:20,460 --> 01:01:18,250
hidden but on the other they're

1293
01:01:22,589 --> 01:01:20,470
unbelievably public you know you see

1294
01:01:25,260 --> 01:01:22,599
them all over the major social networks

1295
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:25,270
and so they're playing this double role

1296
01:01:30,210 --> 01:01:28,570
all the time and and for them getting

1297
01:01:32,460 --> 01:01:30,220
that propaganda out it's not about

1298
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,470
keeping their propaganda hidden they

1299
01:01:36,990 --> 01:01:34,240
want to get that propaganda to as many

1300
01:01:38,310 --> 01:01:37,000
people as possible and you know as we

1301
01:01:41,460 --> 01:01:38,320
all know they've actually been pretty

1302
01:01:45,450 --> 01:01:41,470
effective at doing it and when you look

1303
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:45,460
at the availability for malware and and

1304
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:46,210
hack

1305
01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:49,150
sites that are on the dark web that is

1306
01:01:55,050 --> 01:01:52,500
that's a that's a pure magnet to

1307
01:01:58,500 --> 01:01:55,060
somebody that wants to cause trouble in

1308
01:02:01,530 --> 01:01:58,510
the West for a terrorist organization

1309
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:01,540
are these sites viable are they active

1310
01:02:07,710 --> 01:02:03,910
and is this something that Isis has

1311
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:07,720
taken advantage of I'm not sure whether

1312
01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:10,240
Isis has taken advantage of commercially

1313
01:02:17,130 --> 01:02:13,000
available hacking services from the

1314
01:02:19,140 --> 01:02:17,140
darknet if they haven't my suspicion is

1315
01:02:21,300 --> 01:02:19,150
that they will soon and I don't even

1316
01:02:23,730 --> 01:02:21,310
know whether it would be on the darknet

1317
01:02:28,099 --> 01:02:23,740
that they would do this because there is

1318
01:02:31,020 --> 01:02:28,109
a marketplace for hacking services

1319
01:02:35,820 --> 01:02:31,030
whether it is buying what's called

1320
01:02:38,190 --> 01:02:35,830
exploits you know floors in systems for

1321
01:02:41,579 --> 01:02:38,200
when you're buying those from from

1322
01:02:45,359 --> 01:02:41,589
websites or hiring tech-savvy hackers to

1323
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:45,369
do something for you on spec this is

1324
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:47,680
this is a I mean this is a big industry

1325
01:02:51,690 --> 01:02:49,359
this is a big industry and it is not

1326
01:02:55,770 --> 01:02:51,700
just on the darknet at all it's on the

1327
01:02:58,050 --> 01:02:55,780
surface now as well what's more it's not

1328
01:03:00,720 --> 01:02:58,060
just terrorists they're using it

1329
01:03:02,190 --> 01:03:00,730
individuals can use it governments can

1330
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:02,200
use it you know governments around the

1331
01:03:07,380 --> 01:03:04,690
world are active players in this market

1332
01:03:09,930 --> 01:03:07,390
buying exploits themselves that they

1333
01:03:11,730 --> 01:03:09,940
want to use and I feel like this is

1334
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:11,740
going to become a much bigger problem in

1335
01:03:15,630 --> 01:03:13,810
years ahead we've been seeing more and

1336
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:15,640
more stories in the last 12 months

1337
01:03:20,490 --> 01:03:17,530
haven't we have maybe last three years

1338
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:20,500
of big companies getting hacked and data

1339
01:03:24,570 --> 01:03:22,690
getting lost and all the rest of it and

1340
01:03:26,220 --> 01:03:24,580
this is just in my mind this is just

1341
01:03:28,950 --> 01:03:26,230
going to continue to grow and you know

1342
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:28,960
the strange irony is that perhaps the

1343
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:31,119
answer to some of these problems is on

1344
01:03:36,540 --> 01:03:33,730
the dark net itself because if more

1345
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:36,550
companies and organizations set

1346
01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:40,210
themselves up on tor hidden services use

1347
01:03:45,630 --> 01:03:43,510
the tor browser used encryption that

1348
01:03:47,250 --> 01:03:45,640
they would be more secure and they

1349
01:03:50,310 --> 01:03:47,260
wouldn't get they wouldn't get hacked as

1350
01:03:53,099 --> 01:03:50,320
much so the strange thing is that maybe

1351
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:53,109
the answer is right there in front of us

1352
01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:55,119
and it's using all the same tools

1353
01:03:59,880 --> 01:03:57,510
ourselves but using them more smartly I

1354
01:04:03,599 --> 01:03:59,890
did some research into this

1355
01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:03,609
uh over the last six months or so and

1356
01:04:07,370 --> 01:04:04,720
one of the things that I found

1357
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:07,380
interesting about the hacking now we're

1358
01:04:13,230 --> 01:04:11,049
exploit sites are these guys just like

1359
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:13,240
you know the guys peddling his his

1360
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:16,690
excellent weed are bragging about how

1361
01:04:22,380 --> 01:04:19,569
good their bow where is and and the

1362
01:04:25,710 --> 01:04:22,390
guarantees that they can apply to that

1363
01:04:27,990 --> 01:04:25,720
and also lease and rent you further

1364
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:28,000
services to guarantee that these

1365
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:33,210
exploits actually happen and Eve aid a

1366
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:36,910
vast or or mcafee and other other

1367
01:04:42,660 --> 01:04:39,599
programs out there any virus stuff and

1368
01:04:44,670 --> 01:04:42,670
but and these guys are making lots and

1369
01:04:47,370 --> 01:04:44,680
lots of money they have lots of

1370
01:04:48,990 --> 01:04:47,380
customers so when we come back after the

1371
01:04:50,849 --> 01:04:49,000
break we're up against a heartbreak when

1372
01:04:54,450 --> 01:04:50,859
we come back after the break Jaime I

1373
01:04:56,910 --> 01:04:54,460
want to know who are the customers there

1374
01:04:59,160 --> 01:04:56,920
are thousands and thousands of customers

1375
01:05:01,799 --> 01:04:59,170
new customers every single day

1376
01:05:04,410 --> 01:05:01,809
exploiting these websites think about

1377
01:05:06,569 --> 01:05:04,420
that this is fade to black tonight Jamie

1378
01:05:08,490 --> 01:05:06,579
Bartlett is live from the UK in his book

1379
01:05:11,279 --> 01:05:08,500
the dark web i'm your host jimmy church

1380
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:11,289
this is fade to black the spoke radio

1381
01:05:23,250 --> 01:05:14,890
for the masses on kg ra the planet i'll

1382
01:05:23,260 --> 01:05:26,780
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1383
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:29,220
everybody's rough alpha demint God on

1384
01:05:39,090 --> 01:05:36,330
Jimmy Church radio com jgr a radio

1385
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:39,100
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01:05:44,849 --> 01:05:41,530
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01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:44,859
skywatcher if so f ng innovations com

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01:05:49,460 --> 01:05:47,170
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01:05:51,930 --> 01:05:49,470
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1400
01:06:14,490 --> 01:06:12,220
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1401
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focused round beam in the field where

1402
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:17,290
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01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:21,460
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01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:23,890
flashlights are ideal for investigations

1406
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:26,290
in abandoned facilities such as houses

1407
01:06:30,750 --> 01:06:28,570
and hospitals factories caves and

1408
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:30,760
tunnels avoid those low-hanging tree

1409
01:06:35,550 --> 01:06:32,410
branches that poke your eyes in the

1410
01:06:37,410 --> 01:06:35,560
woods visit fng innovations com to see a

1411
01:06:41,090 --> 01:06:37,420
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01:06:44,070 --> 01:06:41,100
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1422
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hey everybody what's up Jimmy Church of

1423
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:13,760
fade to black and check this out the

1424
01:07:19,550 --> 01:07:17,130
2015 mufon symposium will be held this

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1428
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1430
01:07:36,110 --> 01:07:33,330
will be there in person former CNN news

1431
01:07:38,930 --> 01:07:36,120
anchor cheryl jones TV news journalist

1432
01:07:42,350 --> 01:07:38,940
Jaime moose on and mu fonts chief photo

1433
01:07:44,270 --> 01:07:42,360
analyst Mark Dantonio there just a few

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01:07:47,890 --> 01:07:44,280
of the growing list of names for the

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2015 event it's September 24 through the

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01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:52,020
27th at the beautiful hotel Irvine get

1437
01:07:59,240 --> 01:07:54,050
your tickets today at mufon symposium

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com that's mufon symposium com Gobekli

1439
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:08,610
Tepe you wanna know a secret I love

1440
01:08:15,140 --> 01:08:12,000
ponies I really love ponies I'm serious

1441
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:15,150
I couldn't stay sane without poor mr.

1442
01:08:24,269 --> 01:08:19,050
brush why fade to black because you

1443
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:27,010
this is fade to black with Jimmy church

1444
01:08:51,140 --> 01:08:30,319
on the game changer radio network at kg

1445
01:08:55,550 --> 01:08:53,289
alright welcome back fade to black

1446
01:08:58,430 --> 01:08:55,560
tonight we have very special guest live

1447
01:09:01,749 --> 01:08:58,440
from the UK jamie bartlett and his book

1448
01:09:05,390 --> 01:09:01,759
the dark net don't forget next week on

1449
01:09:08,059 --> 01:09:05,400
Monday Corey good and David Wilcock will

1450
01:09:10,189 --> 01:09:08,069
be right here I've been calling it a

1451
01:09:12,499 --> 01:09:10,199
blockbuster night because it is and

1452
01:09:15,740 --> 01:09:12,509
you've requested it and fade to black

1453
01:09:18,559 --> 01:09:15,750
has the exclusive now Jamie before the

1454
01:09:21,769 --> 01:09:18,569
break I was asking who are these

1455
01:09:27,410 --> 01:09:21,779
customers who is buying this malware is

1456
01:09:30,260 --> 01:09:27,420
it is it Isis is it terrorists is it

1457
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:30,270
just a guy in his mom's basement that's

1458
01:09:34,249 --> 01:09:32,370
pissed off because he didn't get an

1459
01:09:36,140 --> 01:09:34,259
insurance settlement and he's attacking

1460
01:09:39,410 --> 01:09:36,150
his insurance companies is somebody mad

1461
01:09:44,149 --> 01:09:39,420
at his bank is it somebody that is just

1462
01:09:48,140 --> 01:09:44,159
a lone wolf who is it wow you you're a

1463
01:09:50,930 --> 01:09:48,150
sky if only I knew the answer if only I

1464
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:50,940
knew the answer and I don't because

1465
01:09:57,050 --> 01:09:53,040
these transactions are all a real

1466
01:10:01,160 --> 01:09:57,060
secretive I suspect it is it is a

1467
01:10:03,770 --> 01:10:01,170
combination of in angry individuals

1468
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:03,780
looking for revenge but it goes all the

1469
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:06,090
way up to governments around the world

1470
01:10:14,060 --> 01:10:11,130
trying to buy buy techniques by

1471
01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:14,070
capabilities in order to hack other

1472
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:17,790
people hack other people's services you

1473
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:20,310
know in a pot of government intelligence

1474
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:23,010
work is especially since Edward Snowden

1475
01:10:26,590 --> 01:10:24,050
actually is going to be increasingly

1476
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:26,600
about hacking into peoples computers

1477
01:10:29,870 --> 01:10:28,890
because I mean after you passed was it

1478
01:10:31,970 --> 01:10:29,880
called the Hewitt was it called the

1479
01:10:33,979 --> 01:10:31,980
freedom act like I remember the exact

1480
01:10:35,810 --> 01:10:33,989
word of it the exact name of it now but

1481
01:10:38,750 --> 01:10:35,820
one of the things that stopped some of

1482
01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:38,760
the National Security Agency mass

1483
01:10:45,229 --> 01:10:41,880
surveillance programs well now when

1484
01:10:47,180 --> 01:10:45,239
they're stopped Intelligence Agency

1485
01:10:48,979 --> 01:10:47,190
won't stop it'll just change the way it

1486
01:10:51,229 --> 01:10:48,989
works and it will change the way it

1487
01:10:53,810 --> 01:10:51,239
works to do more direct hacking of

1488
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:53,820
people's networks and computers and so I

1489
01:10:58,459 --> 01:10:56,640
would be very surprised if Western

1490
01:11:00,620 --> 01:10:58,469
governments and the Russian government

1491
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:00,630
and the Chinese government and probably

1492
01:11:05,150 --> 01:11:01,850
every other government in the world

1493
01:11:07,070 --> 01:11:05,160
wasn't part of this trade

1494
01:11:10,940 --> 01:11:07,080
Jamie what part of London do you live in

1495
01:11:13,130 --> 01:11:10,950
I am in i'm in north london in a in a

1496
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:13,140
place called Hackney it and if you know

1497
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:18,960
it I do I do now london i believe isn't

1498
01:11:24,380 --> 01:11:21,090
it the most expensive city to live in

1499
01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:24,390
I'm planet Earth well if it's not the

1500
01:11:29,540 --> 01:11:25,920
most expensive it's one of the most

1501
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:29,550
expensive I mean I accommodation in

1502
01:11:34,940 --> 01:11:32,130
London is ridiculously expensive and I

1503
01:11:36,410 --> 01:11:34,950
my neighborhood used to be how do we say

1504
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:36,420
it used to be a little bit of a trouble

1505
01:11:42,620 --> 01:11:39,570
zone right but in the last four or five

1506
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:42,630
years my goodness me he has become the

1507
01:11:47,390 --> 01:11:44,370
trendy cool place that everyone wants to

1508
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:47,400
be all the hipsters and the artists

1509
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:50,400
they're all piling in and it is it is

1510
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:53,970
extortion expensive to live it but but

1511
01:11:57,290 --> 01:11:56,010
I'm still here because you know you want

1512
01:12:00,290 --> 01:11:57,300
to be in the place where the things are

1513
01:12:02,750 --> 01:12:00,300
happening and what about rent control

1514
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:02,760
you know what I mean you're in your spot

1515
01:12:07,010 --> 01:12:05,850
I don't know if you own it or not but is

1516
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:07,020
there a certain amount of rent control

1517
01:12:11,780 --> 01:12:09,210
or you hit with like a twenty percent

1518
01:12:15,230 --> 01:12:11,790
increase every six months we don't have

1519
01:12:17,780 --> 01:12:15,240
any rent control here ah man yeah yeah

1520
01:12:20,270 --> 01:12:17,790
that is it is it is the free market it

1521
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:20,280
rips and but the thing is because London

1522
01:12:24,260 --> 01:12:22,260
has become such an exciting place to

1523
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:24,270
live and there's opportunities and jobs

1524
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:26,490
here and a lot of the rest of Europe

1525
01:12:30,940 --> 01:12:28,530
actually is sort of struggling a little

1526
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:30,950
bit at the moment economically on

1527
01:12:35,690 --> 01:12:33,600
Europeans coming to London looking for

1528
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:35,700
work and that has that knock on effect

1529
01:12:39,050 --> 01:12:36,930
which is pushing the prices up

1530
01:12:41,210 --> 01:12:39,060
everywhere a lot of people in London at

1531
01:12:43,370 --> 01:12:41,220
concerns saying there's a lot of rich

1532
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:43,380
foreigners coming into London buying up

1533
01:12:48,260 --> 01:12:45,360
all the property and that means that the

1534
01:12:50,450 --> 01:12:48,270
key workers the doctors the nurses the

1535
01:12:52,250 --> 01:12:50,460
teachers they can't afford to live in

1536
01:12:54,500 --> 01:12:52,260
London anymore so they got to have a

1537
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:54,510
two-hour commute to get to work and back

1538
01:12:58,820 --> 01:12:56,930
and that is not gonna work in a city so

1539
01:13:02,480 --> 01:12:58,830
something's got to be done and I know

1540
01:13:05,330 --> 01:13:02,490
that the politicians are constantly now

1541
01:13:07,220 --> 01:13:05,340
talking about how do we get more houses

1542
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:07,230
more affordable houses in London for

1543
01:13:12,170 --> 01:13:09,210
ordinary people and then you have to

1544
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:12,180
build the freeways to accommodate

1545
01:13:18,900 --> 01:13:15,330
suburbia that is ever expanding out and

1546
01:13:21,150 --> 01:13:18,910
out yeah it's a yeah yeah

1547
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:21,160
same conundrum here in Los Angeles or

1548
01:13:27,210 --> 01:13:23,650
Moscow or Tokyo or anything else that's

1549
01:13:29,190 --> 01:13:27,220
big Paris you know anything you do over

1550
01:13:31,380 --> 01:13:29,200
there they have a lot more space to play

1551
01:13:33,770 --> 01:13:31,390
with you know you can't build out much

1552
01:13:38,340 --> 01:13:33,780
from London it's a very small country

1553
01:13:42,410 --> 01:13:38,350
Yeah right I wanted to ask I wanted to

1554
01:13:47,700 --> 01:13:42,420
go back to the child pornography part of

1555
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:47,710
the darknet are those sites uh are those

1556
01:13:52,860 --> 01:13:50,290
monetized in the same fashion as some of

1557
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:52,870
the other darknet markets is it Bitcoin

1558
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:57,730
are hot and and are they profitable yes

1559
01:14:03,780 --> 01:14:01,120
so illegal pornography is another as

1560
01:14:07,230 --> 01:14:03,790
another much misunderstood area yeah I

1561
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:07,240
would say that the majority of illegal

1562
01:14:10,710 --> 01:14:08,890
pornography is in fact on the normal

1563
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:10,720
internet it's not on the darknet at all

1564
01:14:15,090 --> 01:14:12,850
but the dark net because of the way that

1565
01:14:18,050 --> 01:14:15,100
it operates provides something of a sort

1566
01:14:20,100 --> 01:14:18,060
of warehouse of constantly available in

1567
01:14:22,770 --> 01:14:20,110
villages so every time something gets

1568
01:14:24,930 --> 01:14:22,780
shut down people can go back there find

1569
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:24,940
it again and re-upload it to the normal

1570
01:14:29,940 --> 01:14:28,330
internet that's the problem it means

1571
01:14:32,790 --> 01:14:29,950
that there's a sort of ellis supply of

1572
01:14:36,150 --> 01:14:32,800
images it's a very difficult world to

1573
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:36,160
research and understand my best judgment

1574
01:14:40,830 --> 01:14:38,770
on this is that something like twenty

1575
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:40,840
percent of the material of the illegal

1576
01:14:45,630 --> 01:14:44,050
material that has been reported to the

1577
01:14:47,220 --> 01:14:45,640
authorities we have somewhere he called

1578
01:14:49,290 --> 01:14:47,230
the internet watch foundation that does

1579
01:14:54,150 --> 01:14:49,300
this something like twenty percent of it

1580
01:14:56,700 --> 01:14:54,160
i think was on commercial sites payment

1581
01:14:59,010 --> 01:14:56,710
to those is there has been a few

1582
01:15:01,260 --> 01:14:59,020
examples of a Bitcoin being used to pay

1583
01:15:03,690 --> 01:15:01,270
for them but actually on the whole it's

1584
01:15:04,740 --> 01:15:03,700
being used with with credit cards and

1585
01:15:07,290 --> 01:15:04,750
the sort of the normal payment

1586
01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:07,300
mechanisms believe it or not but you

1587
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:09,340
know this is that this is this is the

1588
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:12,970
great dilemma now a growing proportion

1589
01:15:19,590 --> 01:15:16,570
of illegal pornography is being produced

1590
01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:19,600
by young people themselves they are

1591
01:15:25,460 --> 01:15:22,630
armed with their smartphones young

1592
01:15:27,780 --> 01:15:25,470
teenagers making videos of themselves

1593
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:27,790
sending it to their boyfriends or

1594
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:29,890
girlfriends or uploading it to the

1595
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:32,650
internet and there are people out there

1596
01:15:37,290 --> 01:15:34,480
who are constantly looking on the net

1597
01:15:40,709 --> 01:15:37,300
trying to find this material and then

1598
01:15:44,850 --> 01:15:40,719
collect it and save it that's about as

1599
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:44,860
disturbing overthought as i can have yes

1600
01:15:50,970 --> 01:15:47,260
and that this is that this is the thing

1601
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:50,980
that's much misunderstood and it's very

1602
01:15:55,649 --> 01:15:53,890
very hard to tackle because it's one

1603
01:15:57,660 --> 01:15:55,659
thing if you've got websites that you

1604
01:16:00,300 --> 01:15:57,670
can shut down but if if there's an

1605
01:16:02,189 --> 01:16:00,310
endless supply of this material from

1606
01:16:04,890 --> 01:16:02,199
young people themselves that don't know

1607
01:16:06,990 --> 01:16:04,900
what they're doing and there's parts of

1608
01:16:09,540 --> 01:16:07,000
the darknet that mean that there's

1609
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,550
always an available supply to mean it's

1610
01:16:13,770 --> 01:16:11,440
almost impossible to remove it entirely

1611
01:16:16,430 --> 01:16:13,780
we have a problem we have a big problem

1612
01:16:19,590 --> 01:16:16,440
it gets very very difficult indeed to

1613
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:19,600
remove and that's one of the reasons why

1614
01:16:28,020 --> 01:16:23,489
for all our efforts we can't do it but

1615
01:16:31,380 --> 01:16:28,030
very very interesting statement made I

1616
01:16:34,169 --> 01:16:31,390
think it was in the mid 80s by the FBI

1617
01:16:36,419 --> 01:16:34,179
so playing they thought they had the

1618
01:16:38,610 --> 01:16:36,429
issue of illegal pornography more or

1619
01:16:40,709 --> 01:16:38,620
less under control because it was a

1620
01:16:43,770 --> 01:16:40,719
handful of magazines that were

1621
01:16:45,570 --> 01:16:43,780
distributed a handful of locations this

1622
01:16:48,450 --> 01:16:45,580
has the internet but all the good things

1623
01:16:52,850 --> 01:16:48,460
it's done has also completely changed

1624
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:52,860
the way this world operates I had read a

1625
01:17:00,120 --> 01:16:55,690
story a couple of weeks ago was put out

1626
01:17:01,939 --> 01:17:00,130
by vice and the journalist I don't have

1627
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:01,949
his name in front of me but he had

1628
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:07,330
jumped on the darknet and was doing his

1629
01:17:14,430 --> 01:17:09,760
story in his research and he found a

1630
01:17:19,169 --> 01:17:14,440
site that was auctioning sex slaves that

1631
01:17:22,860 --> 01:17:19,179
were kidnapped and he he got inside and

1632
01:17:25,979 --> 01:17:22,870
and imposed as a customer he was found

1633
01:17:29,010 --> 01:17:25,989
out a couple of times it got back in got

1634
01:17:33,180 --> 01:17:29,020
their trust back and it was his opinion

1635
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:33,190
that it was a fake site that it wasn't

1636
01:17:40,290 --> 01:17:36,010
real that this wasn't that they were

1637
01:17:42,740 --> 01:17:40,300
there to steal your money and that if

1638
01:17:44,850 --> 01:17:42,750
there was an auction that was going on

1639
01:17:45,729 --> 01:17:44,860
you were just going to get ripped off

1640
01:17:48,549 --> 01:17:45,739
and who could

1641
01:17:50,890 --> 01:17:48,559
you go and tell me exactly exactly

1642
01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:50,900
what's the prevalence of something like

1643
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:54,800
that what do you think yeah yeah that

1644
01:17:59,140 --> 01:17:56,480
doesn't surprise tell why she didn't see

1645
01:18:00,879 --> 01:17:59,150
that story most of my shame I should I

1646
01:18:02,770 --> 01:18:00,889
should have seen that but that doesn't

1647
01:18:07,089 --> 01:18:02,780
surprise me at all because you know

1648
01:18:08,649 --> 01:18:07,099
they're it biggity because you get your

1649
01:18:11,799 --> 01:18:08,659
app you don't have anywhere to go to

1650
01:18:14,620 --> 01:18:11,809
complain so if you're going to give over

1651
01:18:15,609 --> 01:18:14,630
your money on these sites frankly you've

1652
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:15,619
got to be prepared to take the

1653
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:19,449
consequences so I think there's a

1654
01:18:23,950 --> 01:18:21,199
significant proportion of these

1655
01:18:28,350 --> 01:18:23,960
so-called terrible sights are just skip

1656
01:18:30,220 --> 01:18:28,360
am sites and they are ripping people off

1657
01:18:31,810 --> 01:18:30,230
well you might say that those people

1658
01:18:34,450 --> 01:18:31,820
deserve to be ripped off frankly if

1659
01:18:37,180 --> 01:18:34,460
they're going they're trying to absolute

1660
01:18:40,509 --> 01:18:37,190
you know the auction kidnap people so

1661
01:18:41,890 --> 01:18:40,519
good yo good a good job too and but i

1662
01:18:43,989 --> 01:18:41,900
think that i think i think there is an

1663
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:43,999
awful lot of that of that sort of

1664
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:46,730
strange criminal activity taking place

1665
01:18:52,450 --> 01:18:49,730
on these sites as well but again and I

1666
01:18:55,419 --> 01:18:52,460
come back to this point over and over so

1667
01:18:58,989 --> 01:18:55,429
there is on the normal internet the

1668
01:19:01,419 --> 01:18:58,999
number of scams and phishing scams and

1669
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:01,429
hack sites and links to click on they're

1670
01:19:05,410 --> 01:19:03,530
everywhere the only difference is I

1671
01:19:07,989 --> 01:19:05,420
think on the darknet you just don't have

1672
01:19:09,669 --> 01:19:07,999
it any recourse and you just you just

1673
01:19:14,290 --> 01:19:09,679
don't know really what you're dealing

1674
01:19:16,959 --> 01:19:14,300
with in the same way I'm gonna wrap this

1675
01:19:23,859 --> 01:19:16,969
up I've got to get some advice from you

1676
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:23,869
how do i get rid of spam email not a

1677
01:19:32,259 --> 01:19:26,449
mock of all the problems in the nair

1678
01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:32,269
what is up with that you know the very

1679
01:19:39,700 --> 01:19:36,289
first piece of spam email was sent in

1680
01:19:42,250 --> 01:19:39,710
the i think it was in the late 1970s in

1681
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:42,260
California some company had worked out

1682
01:19:50,319 --> 01:19:46,130
how to access every single email address

1683
01:19:52,419 --> 01:19:50,329
on the entire internet and sent this

1684
01:19:54,819 --> 01:19:52,429
annoying advert I think it was about car

1685
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:54,829
sales or something like that and managed

1686
01:19:58,570 --> 01:19:57,530
to send it to every single person on the

1687
01:20:01,870 --> 01:19:58,580
internet

1688
01:20:06,010 --> 01:20:01,880
and everybody was cut furious your is

1689
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:06,020
about this and ever since that day it

1690
01:20:11,890 --> 01:20:09,050
has been impossible to get rid of spam

1691
01:20:14,140 --> 01:20:11,900
emails it still is impossible you're

1692
01:20:17,830 --> 01:20:14,150
never going to get rid of them I assume

1693
01:20:20,650 --> 01:20:17,840
you have a spam filter selected on your

1694
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:20,660
normal email accounts yeah they're

1695
01:20:24,340 --> 01:20:22,250
filtered into that and then you just

1696
01:20:25,660 --> 01:20:24,350
delete them all I don't think there's

1697
01:20:28,540 --> 01:20:25,670
anything that you're going to be able to

1698
01:20:31,690 --> 01:20:28,550
do this better than the teams of people

1699
01:20:33,820 --> 01:20:31,700
that work for Gmail and Yahoo that work

1700
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:33,830
on this day in day out to make their

1701
01:20:37,900 --> 01:20:36,050
filters better I really don't think

1702
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:37,910
there's much more you can take them that

1703
01:20:43,510 --> 01:20:40,250
I'm afraid spat living with spam emails

1704
01:20:46,210 --> 01:20:43,520
is just a little nuisance of modern

1705
01:20:49,180 --> 01:20:46,220
internet life it's amazing during this

1706
01:20:52,660 --> 01:20:49,190
interview you know I have my email open

1707
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:52,670
and I just watch it click away that you

1708
01:20:56,440 --> 01:20:54,650
know the spam email comes in every

1709
01:20:58,960 --> 01:20:56,450
couple of minutes and it's just

1710
01:21:03,130 --> 01:20:58,970
filtering filtering filtering filtering

1711
01:21:04,780 --> 01:21:03,140
filtering it's absolutely amazing you

1712
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:04,790
know I get hundreds and hundreds and

1713
01:21:11,490 --> 01:21:07,730
hundreds every single day it's just

1714
01:21:17,050 --> 01:21:11,500
amazing to me yeah you g sort of wonder

1715
01:21:20,290 --> 01:21:17,060
why I are we I don't know single person

1716
01:21:22,300 --> 01:21:20,300
epic them oh you know the truth is a lot

1717
01:21:24,790 --> 01:21:22,310
of the these are sent out by automated

1718
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:24,800
BOTS they're just machines that are just

1719
01:21:32,710 --> 01:21:28,850
pushing out millions of bits of spam

1720
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:32,720
every second and there is another you

1721
01:21:36,850 --> 01:21:34,610
know that is another arms race there is

1722
01:21:39,820 --> 01:21:36,860
an endless number of arms races between

1723
01:21:42,340 --> 01:21:39,830
the good guys and the bad guys all the

1724
01:21:44,770 --> 01:21:42,350
time you know do you not remember when

1725
01:21:47,980 --> 01:21:44,780
you used to get junk mail all the time

1726
01:21:50,050 --> 01:21:47,990
every day through your door yes yes a

1727
01:21:52,810 --> 01:21:50,060
real nuisance wasn't ever you just lived

1728
01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:52,820
with it you tore it up threw it in the

1729
01:21:56,710 --> 01:21:54,800
bin and after a while you sort of got to

1730
01:21:59,560 --> 01:21:56,720
live with it and I'm afraid it's the

1731
01:22:02,590 --> 01:21:59,570
same thing on the Internet yeah it's

1732
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:02,600
working I mean somebody somewhere is

1733
01:22:09,580 --> 01:22:06,770
clicking on something and it's I don't

1734
01:22:11,770 --> 01:22:09,590
know what it is you're clicking to maybe

1735
01:22:12,130 --> 01:22:11,780
they want to validate your email address

1736
01:22:14,470 --> 01:22:12,140
and

1737
01:22:17,710 --> 01:22:14,480
then you know resell it or whatever that

1738
01:22:20,860 --> 01:22:17,720
this is a good email address or it's

1739
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:20,870
something malicious and standing really

1740
01:22:24,940 --> 01:22:23,450
really bad but yeah yeah yeah and you

1741
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:24,950
know what worries me you know where's me

1742
01:22:31,870 --> 01:22:29,330
it's that the tech savvy people and the

1743
01:22:34,480 --> 01:22:31,880
young people they don't click on those

1744
01:22:36,250 --> 01:22:34,490
links so be your right someone's got to

1745
01:22:37,900 --> 01:22:36,260
be clicking on them so I think to myself

1746
01:22:38,860 --> 01:22:37,910
well who's clicking on it's probably

1747
01:22:41,620 --> 01:22:38,870
people that don't know what they're

1748
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:41,630
doing people that don't that aren't used

1749
01:22:45,970 --> 01:22:43,250
to the Internet as much that don't

1750
01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:45,980
really know what spam mail is and

1751
01:22:50,470 --> 01:22:47,450
they're the ones that are getting caught

1752
01:22:52,540 --> 01:22:50,480
out we have a real danger in society of

1753
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:52,550
this sort of digital divide between the

1754
01:22:56,500 --> 01:22:54,410
people that know what the internet does

1755
01:22:59,860 --> 01:22:56,510
how it works can make the most of it and

1756
01:23:02,650 --> 01:22:59,870
then all the other people out there that

1757
01:23:04,420 --> 01:23:02,660
don't and I think we're in danger they

1758
01:23:07,390 --> 01:23:04,430
are real dangerous we're creating a

1759
01:23:09,670 --> 01:23:07,400
massive inequality in society about how

1760
01:23:13,090 --> 01:23:09,680
we use the internet and I really hope we

1761
01:23:18,130 --> 01:23:13,100
do something about that about about a

1762
01:23:22,660 --> 01:23:18,140
year ago on my iPad I've now got a bunch

1763
01:23:24,910 --> 01:23:22,670
of Android tablets I've retired my apple

1764
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:24,920
ipad one point oh whatever was first

1765
01:23:33,070 --> 01:23:29,090
generation but on the iPad I I got this

1766
01:23:37,450 --> 01:23:33,080
a lock-up message that that popped up

1767
01:23:43,450 --> 01:23:37,460
and said your your iPad and your files

1768
01:23:47,410 --> 01:23:43,460
have been shut down to unlock your iPad

1769
01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:47,420
go to it was like Western you know yeah

1770
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:50,870
and send us two hundred dollars and will

1771
01:23:57,580 --> 01:23:54,770
unlock your iPad and you know what I

1772
01:23:59,230 --> 01:23:57,590
couldn't I couldn't shut it off I

1773
01:24:02,470 --> 01:23:59,240
couldn't unclick I couldn't do anything

1774
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:02,480
I ended up doing a hard reboot on the

1775
01:24:08,020 --> 01:24:05,330
iPad and cleared it out and in it ran

1776
01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:08,030
again oh my god yeah this is a this was

1777
01:24:13,630 --> 01:24:11,450
this cryptolocker it is that something

1778
01:24:15,370 --> 01:24:13,640
that is yes this is a big thing

1779
01:24:17,230 --> 01:24:15,380
cryptolocker there's a number of these

1780
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:17,240
this is malware it's very very clever

1781
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:20,210
it's malware that essentially encrypts

1782
01:24:25,220 --> 01:24:23,120
your hard drive with a very very

1783
01:24:27,740 --> 01:24:25,230
powerful piece of encryption and there's

1784
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:27,750
no way of you decrypting it it could be

1785
01:24:32,570 --> 01:24:29,850
all your family photos all of your word

1786
01:24:34,910 --> 01:24:32,580
yes yes without without paying a ransom

1787
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:34,920
they're calling it a ransom now the

1788
01:24:37,220 --> 01:24:36,090
other thing is you don't even know if

1789
01:24:38,690 --> 01:24:37,230
you pay the ransom whether you'll

1790
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:38,700
actually get your stuff back but I know

1791
01:24:43,550 --> 01:24:40,800
people that have paid the ransom and

1792
01:24:45,170 --> 01:24:43,560
have got the stuff back but this is a

1793
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:45,180
big thing and you know what that can

1794
01:24:49,460 --> 01:24:47,520
happen to anybody click on one link and

1795
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:49,470
your entire hard drive could be

1796
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:52,560
encrypted by somebody else so again what

1797
01:24:56,990 --> 01:24:55,050
does that tell you back up oh my god you

1798
01:24:58,790 --> 01:24:57,000
got to back up all of your work don't

1799
01:25:00,080 --> 01:24:58,800
leave your house without having

1800
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:00,090
everything that's important to you

1801
01:25:05,810 --> 01:25:03,450
somewhere else on a hard drive somewhere

1802
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:05,820
else honor honor honor on a USB stick

1803
01:25:13,310 --> 01:25:08,850
whatever it is but make sure you backup

1804
01:25:15,950 --> 01:25:13,320
your stuff how do you how do you avoid

1805
01:25:19,010 --> 01:25:15,960
clicking on the wrong link a when it

1806
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:19,020
wouldn't happen on I'm just gonna pick a

1807
01:25:25,729 --> 01:25:22,410
website cnn.com the odds of that

1808
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:25,739
happening there wouldn't but where are

1809
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:28,080
you venturing that this kind of activity

1810
01:25:34,340 --> 01:25:32,130
would happen you know what i mean is

1811
01:25:35,930 --> 01:25:34,350
yeah i dunno but you know what you're

1812
01:25:37,670 --> 01:25:35,940
sort of getting beyond my level of

1813
01:25:40,220 --> 01:25:37,680
expertise here i mean i don't think i

1814
01:25:42,410 --> 01:25:40,230
can offer any any hard-and-fast rules on

1815
01:25:44,890 --> 01:25:42,420
this i mean they always say that you you

1816
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:44,900
have a decent you have some decent

1817
01:25:49,340 --> 01:25:47,130
anti-malware software on your own

1818
01:25:51,140 --> 01:25:49,350
computer that's looking out for this you

1819
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:51,150
only trust you only click links from

1820
01:25:56,180 --> 01:25:54,000
people these trust but that doesn t work

1821
01:25:57,830 --> 01:25:56,190
because sometimes your friends accounts

1822
01:26:00,260 --> 01:25:57,840
are getting hacked and they're sending

1823
01:26:01,940 --> 01:26:00,270
you links so you've got to even be

1824
01:26:03,650 --> 01:26:01,950
careful i mean if you look at a link and

1825
01:26:06,979 --> 01:26:03,660
it looks very unusual in a strange

1826
01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:06,989
string of numbers and letters just be

1827
01:26:13,250 --> 01:26:10,110
very wary just be very wary I gotta

1828
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:13,260
thank you I Jamie very enlightening a

1829
01:26:19,430 --> 01:26:18,210
show and what's your main website where

1830
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:19,440
everybody can go and check out your

1831
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:22,890
research well probably I've got my

1832
01:26:30,350 --> 01:26:26,730
website is Jamie bought all the things

1833
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:30,360
Jamie Bartlett dot org but de mostest

1834
01:26:37,100 --> 01:26:32,400
ink tank in the UK is where I do most of

1835
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:37,110
my work you can find that w WM l co uk

1836
01:26:42,140 --> 01:26:39,090
and find a lot of the work

1837
01:26:43,580 --> 01:26:42,150
we do that we do there and thank you so

1838
01:26:45,140 --> 01:26:43,590
much for having me on it's been it's

1839
01:26:47,090 --> 01:26:45,150
been a real pleasure talking to you even

1840
01:26:49,570 --> 01:26:47,100
at this time yeah thank you so much

1841
01:26:53,300 --> 01:26:49,580
Jamie you have a great rest of your day

1842
01:26:56,060 --> 01:26:53,310
thank you jamie bartlett everybody thank

1843
01:26:57,830 --> 01:26:56,070
you live from the UK the darknet i'm

1844
01:27:00,020 --> 01:26:57,840
going to cut take a quick short break

1845
01:27:04,370 --> 01:27:00,030
here and when I come back I'm going to

1846
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:04,380
open up the phone lines 3 23 8 25 50 45

1847
01:27:14,810 --> 01:27:09,840
3 23 8 25 50 45 like to talk about the

1848
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:14,820
dark net and also jared today has pled

1849
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:17,730
guilty and speaking about the dark net

1850
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:20,130
and child pornography that's a certain

1851
01:27:24,980 --> 01:27:22,650
subject so let's do that i'm your host

1852
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:24,990
jimmy church this is fade to black on

1853
01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:28,080
the game changer network and kg ra the

1854
01:27:46,700 --> 01:27:30,510
planet bespoke radio for the masses i'll

1855
01:27:46,710 --> 01:27:56,389
me

1856
01:28:00,929 --> 01:27:58,889
hey what up y'all should go vivica fox

1857
01:28:06,139 --> 01:28:00,939
here and you are listening to my boy

1858
01:28:09,839 --> 01:28:06,149
Jimmy church on Jimmy church radio com

1859
01:28:16,259 --> 01:28:09,849
despite popular opinion reading a book

1860
01:28:18,569 --> 01:28:16,269
will not make you smarter attention all

1861
01:28:21,239 --> 01:28:18,579
fate or not studio dome has a special

1862
01:28:23,129 --> 01:28:21,249
deal on their sd1 Bluetooth speaker just

1863
01:28:24,989 --> 01:28:23,139
go to Jimmy church radio.com click on

1864
01:28:27,209 --> 01:28:24,999
their banner enter the promo code Jimmy

1865
01:28:29,549 --> 01:28:27,219
and you get forty dollars off and free

1866
01:28:32,129 --> 01:28:29,559
shipping on the sd1 it's voice-activated

1867
01:28:33,929 --> 01:28:32,139
comes with the USB antenna cables and a

1868
01:28:36,509 --> 01:28:33,939
carry bag never listen to your phone

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tablet or laptop speakers ever again

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it's the only way to listen to fade to

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black that's Jimmy church radio.com

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studio dome banner promo code Jimmy

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Gobekli Tepe it's not a lifestyle we

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chose we were born this way k gr a radio

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hey everybody what's up Jimmy Church of

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fade to black and check this out the

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2015 mufon symposium will be held this

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September 24 through the 27th in

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beautiful downtown Irvine California

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spanning ufology opening new doors in

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academia industry and media former

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defense minister of canada Paul Hellyer

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will be there in person former CNN news

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01:29:34,170 --> 01:29:31,360
anchor cheryl jones TV news journalist

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01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:34,180
Jaime moose on and mu fonts chief photo

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analyst Mark Dantonio there just a few

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of the growing list of names for the

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2015 event it's September 24th through

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the 27th at the beautiful hotel irvine

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get your tickets today at mufon

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symposium com that's mufon symposium com

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Gobekli Tepe this is KJ CR Jimmy Church